The idea that humans can exist at all without killing living creatures for sustenance is a complete delusion.

The foods farmed for vegans and vegetarians come at the result of mass murder and ecological devastation. It’s just that the rodents, birds and myriad insects that are exterminated by the hundreds-of-millions are unseen casualties.

The pesticides and herbicides REQUIRED to farm plants also create mass devastation and death for surrounding areas and the wildlife there too, including within soil.

I love animals and I actually respect people who want to reduce animal harm. But being vegan or vegetarian doesn’t accomplish this. It’s a dishonest (and unhealthy) way of life that simply hides its cost to life and environment. “Plant based” only pretends to be better than animal farming.

Humans are apex predators. We are carnivores. Farming plants inherently results in perpetual mass-death for many creatures too. Pretending these realities away doesn’t change them.

I do strongly advocate buying meat sourced from humane facilities. It’s better for the consumer and supporting operations that don’t torture their animals, fill them with growth hormones and antibiotics, increases their prevalence. Vote with your capital and don’t vote for animal torture.

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plants grow without pest-/herbicides. it is not "REQUIRED" as you say.

growing at scale in the commodity crop fashion will often be detrimental to Earth as a system, and you recognize this when speaking about animals, so maybe update your argument to be more specific.

I’m a plant professional and I know agriculture professionals as well. There is no such thing as growing plants at scale without pest and weed mitigation, period. Even “organic”crops utilize many methods of FDA acceptable pesticides.

repeating what i've said back to me with social status markers attached serves no purpose.

you can source your veg from "humane facilities."

Delusional.

incapable of extending one's own logic.

You’re refusing to accept the objective facts. No use in corresponding with a profoundly delusional individual. You’re unwell and incapable of accepting reality. Many like you, wish you the best.

lay out the facts better and i will learn. but IMO you're Matrix dodging having a complete thought about what you're saying.

Facts are laid out clearly. You’re either choosing not to accept them or incapable. Either way I’m done, you’re muted.

ah yes, the best way to learn: plug your ears.

Not only are herbicides and pesticides required for industrial scale produce farming, these are proven carcinogens to humans which adds a massive financial, metabolic, and emotional burden to society.