Subnostr

This is the opposite of my experience. I love winter and fall, my favorite seasons. Lots of human populations adapted and thrived in these conditions, with none of the creature comforts we have now.

It's also interesting how many world spanning empires came from North of the 37th (all of Europe, the UK, Russia). It's like adversity breeds strength or something.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

It is a verifiable fact that sun exposure stimulates human hormone production positively. So without sunlight exposure the body is operating with sub-optimal hormone levels.

I think human migration without a doubt selected (out of necessity) for intelligence and fortitude and certain types of durability but if you look at typical UK or Caucasian physiques globally they are objectively (on average) worse than that of equatorial or equatorial-adjacent humans. This has a lot to do with hormonal dysfunction 1/2 of the year due to lack of sun, compounding (imo).

“Flu season” and significant seasonal weight gain are both phenomena that have a lot to do with lack of UV exposure / hormonal deficiencies as well.

In the same vein, the northern latitude has an epidemic of SAD that shows up every October - March as soon as consistent sun disappears.

There is also a very good large longitudinal study that found significant positive correlation between sun exposure and increased mortality. Or lack of sun exposure and increased risk of mortality - however you want to look at it.

There is solid evidence that UV / sun exposure is a vital component to optimal human health. It doesn’t mean we can’t survive without it, obviously humans can. But I would argue the credible evidence shows humans function sub-optimally sans UV / sunlight

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Discussion

Ryan 1mo ago

Typical physiques now eating a processed slop diet, or from the past when we ate traditional diets? I'll bet there is a huge difference. Same problem for seasonal weight gain.

Modern diets are also majorly lacking in vitamin D. Traditional diets were rich in it, while most modern foods lack it, to the point we supplement it in many for sources and even take it in pills. I up my intake of fish majorly in the winter, it makes a huge difference.

Humans also store vitamin D in body fat for the winter. But now we are advised to cover up, use sunscreen, and avoid UV, so that doesn't happen.

Any study is going to be thrown off by a century of bad diets and bad practices that have harmed human health in the meantime, so their validity is questionable at best.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

In a large population study (the study I cited had more than 29,000 participants) diet is similarly stratified between all levels of sun exposure so effects can be studied accurately. But they also controlled for variables like diet, smoking, alcohol consumption etc.

Regardless, the fact that sun exposure positively impacts hormonal production is the key. If that’s what humans evolved for and need to be physiological optimal, then any environment that doesn’t stimulate adequate hormonal production via lack of sun exposure, is sub-optimal. That’s all.

Ryan 1mo ago

But humans aren't a homogenous population, and some have evolved to exist in different areas. The results of living in the North will be drastically different between people of Inuit, northern European or sub Saharan genetics. I don't think it's as simple as you make it out to be.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

It is as simple as I make it out to be and I’ve presented credible / verifiable evidence to support these conclusions. But you’re free to think anything you’d like. I’m not here to convince anyone. I presented why I think what I think and that’s where I’ll leave it.

Ryan 1mo ago

Evidence would be a link, not a claim a study exists with zero proof. That means very little really, nothing in fact. I honestly expected more from you, a person who opines about a meat only diet, than to say "there's a study that proves I'm right". To do what you've done it took ignoring mountains of scientific data that said the opposite. Yet you expect me to just trust the science.

But you're right, it doesn't matter anyways.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

After a moment of clarity recently I’ve written off sprawling internet debates and especially arguments.

They accomplish nothing, people talk past each other, they’re full of logical fallacies and misinterpretation and evidence is typically ignored completely. I am done with them.

Someone like you who I respect and am friendly with I have no issue having a light discussion but I’m not pouring time and energy into these sort of interactions anymore because they are truly a waste of time in my opinion.

I am happy to share this study with you on request and I would never relay information I hadn’t vetted deeply and was confident in: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/joim.12251

In my opinion > 99% of studies are absolute garbages. Either corporate propaganda, government propaganda or a researcher seeking funding. But a well executed, randomized, controlled longitudinal study is an exception. Credible studies are few and far between but they do exist. It’s just hard to find them and almost nobody actually dives into methodology to make sure they’re credible.

The sun exposure subject is something I’ve spent a lot of time studying personally and bc of that I am confident that sun exposure is necessary to achieve optimal human health; credible evidence has led me to this conclusion. But spending a lot of time trying to relay this on the internet to others is pointless for me. I know what I know and I’ve done the hard work to figure it out. If others want to do this they can. But I’m out.

Ryan 1mo ago

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

I just read in another comment that you're in the PNW, that actually explains a lot 😂 I spent a few years in Southern British Columbia, horrible weather with the constant rain. I moved back to the prairies in large part due to them. Prairie winters are much better for me, as I prefer dry and snow to wet and rain. I'll never understand why so many people want to live in Vancouver.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

Definitely want to move to a sunnier, drier climate.

It’s been raining for a week straight here and the 10 day forecast is solid rain🫠

Leaving for South America next month for a month but that doesn’t help me now lmao

Ryan 1mo ago

Enjoy the vacation.

BTC_P2P 1mo ago

Ty ser it’s going to be a wild one. Will post about my adventures.