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Your economic illiteracy couldn’t be more clear - you point out the obvious while ignoring the finer details. Selling Bitcoin for dollars is not the same as selling it for goods and services. The former strengthens the dollar and its competition as a medium of exchange, while the latter creates new incentives to acquire more Bitcoin, both for yourself and the merchant.

21seasons 9mo ago

I think the economics here are pretty straight forward. It all comes to the supply and demand. The more bitcoin is held while demand is growing, the more bitcoin grows in value, tempting more people to join.

On the other hand, it doesn't matter what do you sell your coins for. If you sell them you're shorting bitcoin against something else.

And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with selling your coins for useful products/services, it just not create any incentives to anybody aquire more bitcoin.

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Discussion

Tauri 9mo ago

What I just explained you is that spending is directly impacting adoption to the upside and there is plenty of material to back this claim. You just haven’t read any Mises or Rothbard and it shows. Furthermore you would have experienced this yourself if you had spend your corn. Since I’m living on a Bitcoin standard my stack has only grown because I’m converting my whole fiat wage and not just the scraps. Plus I’m more mindful of my expenses.

21seasons 9mo ago

I don't believe there's any material backing the claim that selling your bitcoin is impacting the adoption to the upside. Adoption means people hodl more bitcoin, not selling it.

I've read a lot of Mises and Rothbard, they're very inspiring writers!

I've spend too much of my coins since 2014, and I regret some of my spending so much today!

Like I states earlier, I'm still spending my coins, last time I bought VPN with bitcoin not very long time ago.

You're not living Bitcoin standard if you get your paycheck in fiat 😂

Tauri 9mo ago

> I've read a lot of Mises and Rothbard

If you had, we wouldn’t been having this conversation. They both give plenty of examples in their books.

> You're not living Bitcoin standard if you get your paycheck in fiat

Another retarded take. The Bitcoin standard is not something that will happen overnight. It’s not something that will happen by establishing a SBR or trading ETFs. Selling your fiat for Bitcoin is the ultimate speculative attack on the traditional financial system. Spending and replacing the Bitcoin is the final nail in the coffin. Few understand this and that’s why folks like Saylor are having so many followers.

21seasons 9mo ago

Can you point one of the Mises or Rothbard book that is covering that selling a thing creates a more demand for it?

SBR and ETFs are fiat.

Spending and replacing doesn't create more demand or adoption.

Speculative attack is real, but it works the other way also! Giving away your bitcoin is worse for the adoption than holding it. Of course giving it away against literal fiat is like going backwards.

I see no point on simping Saylor or anybody else.

Tauri 9mo ago

I don’t see the point in continuing this, but buying and selling are the foundation of every economy. The fallacy that one party wins by selling at the expense of the buyer is a central theme in the works of both Mises and Rothbard. This fallacy only holds true in cases of involuntary exchange, where coercion is involved. In voluntary trade both parties exchange something they value. The merchant receives Bitcoin, and you receive the product - both sides benefit.

Now that you’ve spent some Bitcoin, you’ll eventually need to replenish it to buy other essentials while setting some aside for savings. That puts you on the demand side. The merchant, who now holds Bitcoin for future expenses and possibly for savings, is also on the demand side. Before this voluntary exchange, only one party was demanding Bitcoin - now there are two. Work out the rest by yourself.

Tauri 9mo ago

Here, I brought some receipts for people that claim to read but don’t:

21seasons 9mo ago

The Bitcoin Standard is not something that happens overnight. One can not just exchange fiat for bitcoin and claiming to live Bitcoin standard. The economy needs to support it so you can get paid by bitcoin and use it for the living expenses.

Tauri 9mo ago

I don’t care how you label it. I spend Bitcoin for everything and you don’t. There are solutions for this, and it’s just a matter of will and effort. If you’re waiting for the system to change on its own to accommodate your improved version of it, I have news for you. It won’t. The economy won’t support a choice made by a fringe group unless there is a strong incentive. Change comes from action, not slogans. By creating real monetary demand through actual usage, you and others like you will drive that change.

On the flip side, people like Saylor will help Bitcoin become an inert asset that no longer serves its primary function as money, slowly pushing it toward irrelevance.

21seasons 9mo ago

You sell bitcoin and I don't.

I'm not waiting anything, I focus on my craft and save in bitcoin.

If bitcoin works, systems will inevitably adjust for it. Economic order is foundational so it takes time and there should be no need for rushing.

Saylor is doing more harm than good nowadays when he tries to prevent others funding development and maintaining Bitcoin, he also doesn't seem to care P2P cash but instead digital gold aspect of it. He doesn't spend their bitcoin like you do.

Tauri 9mo ago

I say this and then I’m opting out of this conversation. Bitcoin is a system, but it’s people who make it work. If every node runner abandoned the software tomorrow and the network collapsed, would that mean Bitcoin failed, or that people failed Bitcoin?

Economy doesn’t exist in a vacuum - every outcome is a result of human action. There’s no inevitability. The idea that “everything is good for Bitcoin” has become a meme, and a misleading one at that.

Saving in Bitcoin while actively supporting the fiat system is also a valid choice, one with real consequences for Bitcoin’s future. Your actions shape the Bitcoin economy just as much as anyone else’s. If more people continue down this path, the so-called Bitcoin revolution may remain nothing more than a dream.