Nostr Web Client

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/pull/345 is pretty ingenious and simple, and could be a good thing, even though I agree with all the criticisms it has received too.

But personally I don't understand why we can't just use torrents. BitTorrent already supports "webseeds", which are servers that literally serve the file, and the same file can be served from many of these servers. BitTorrent is a very simple protocol too, with many libraries and implementations in many different languages. There is no reason to reinvent things.

Or maybe there is. What is the reason? What can this (or other similar proposals) do that BitTorrent directly can't?

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Discussion

Enki 2y ago

Im kinda in the "just use web torrents" camp.

Ive ran a tracker in the past. Would people use a nostr focused tracker?

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fiatjaf 2y ago

That would be great.

Enki 2y ago

Cool i got a project. Ill post when its up.

Leo Wandersleb 2y ago

Can you demo loading profile pictures from a torrent in a browser client?

I admit I did not search for it and would be happy with an example page loading just a bunch of content addressable images.

fiatjaf 2y ago

I posted a demo video of this here somewhere using my own server and code, but I can't find it.

fiatjaf 2y ago

Here: https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1653275/222025570-6f893106-9c35-4862-bea6-10e518c91b92.mp4

Andrew 2y ago

Are bittorrent webseeds similar to how webtorrent does things?

fiatjaf 2y ago

No, they're just servers that host the content and serve them through HTTP. They're also supported by WebTorrent.

PABLOF7z 2y ago

yeah, torrents

I do like #[2]'s NosDAV proposal for ACL to the storage (is one of the options I'll support on https://github.com/zapstr/zapstr in addition to torrents)

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 2y ago

is there any NIP that proposes to reduce or get away from clearnet dns currently - just a dummies q

btw i saw ur intention for ASIC hw acquisition in another note couldnot reply there - u need to be careful - hunt for used one - esp when market is HOT - price get proportional to btc price movement rather that semiconductor market.

fiatjaf 2y ago

Yes and no. There is a petname-based idea, but it's hard to imagine it scaling as much as DNS. We'll need a spacechain for that.

captjack 🏴‍☠️✨💜 2y ago

ok thanks 🙏🤙💜 will learn n see how this topic evolves

mrclownworld 2y ago

I built zaptv.io over the weekend to show off the Nostr+WebTorrent possibilities

Obviously it’s not a protocol level thing but it’s just to illustrate the concept

Kieran 2y ago

Yea i want to switch to webtorrent, maybe we should look at the tagged media with alternative links because Damus won't be able to do torrents afaik

That might be the case for any native clients on app stores.

Gigi 2y ago

I like torrents. Always have, always will.

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Matt 2y ago

Same here.

We have lots to learn from private torrent trackers. They are the original “decentralized org with built in incentives.”

Users on private torrent trackers work hard to increase their seed ratio to prevent the tragedy of the commons.

Ryan 2y ago

Nostr seems like a great place to set up a private tracker 🤔

fiatjaf 2y ago

Private torrent trackers with seed measuring are so easy to fake.

Nathan Day 2y ago

Just because you can NIP, doesn't mean you should.

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Josua Schmid 2y ago

Can you sketch a scenario in which seeding a Torrent is rewarded with Satoshis?

If yes, I don‘t see valid counter-arguments.

fiatjaf 2y ago

I don't understand your point, but I had a half-working prototype for paid seeding using a BitTorrent extension some years ago, which I never finished because it was hard to imagine it having a lot of demand.

0x0 2y ago

IPFS & IPLD would be great too..

fiatjaf 2y ago

No way.

0x0 2y ago

We're testing js-ipfs client on browser to index everything from Nostr & eth sides as linked data.

**still missing some full ipfs node features on browser & really hard to pubsub.. That's why we're using Nostr instead of ipfs-pubsub. ;) but for basic distributed storage & linked data it's similar tech stack as web+torrent with magnet link like content identifier/hash.

```

const _ipfs = await Ipfs.create({

config: {

Addresses: {

Swarm: [

// This is a public webrtc-star server, add more

"/dns4/wrtc-star2.sjc.dwebops.pub/tcp/443/wss/p2p-webrtc-star",

"/ip4/127.0.0.1/tcp/13579/wss/p2p-webrtc-star" // run your own webrtc

]

Bootstrap: ["/dnsaddr/bootstrap.libp2p.io/p2p/QmNnooDu7bfjPFoTZYxMNLWUQJyrVwtbZg5gBMjTezGAJN",

// add more bootnodes,

]

}

});

let test = {

".well-known": {

"nostr.json": {

"hello" : "world"

}

};

let ipld = await _ipfs.dag.put(test);

console.log("ipld://" + ipld.toString());

```

mchotbot 2y ago

Your post is making waves.

Added to the https://member.cash/hot feed

Braydon Fuller 2y ago

I agree, webtorrent/bittorrent seems like a great way. Relays could optionally provide an additional service and charge based on sats per bytes for storage and perhaps bandwidth.

A Good Many 2y ago

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