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Where does your personal morality derive from?

I have trouble thinking about an omnipotent individual, so I have focused on a theory of utilitarianism. What actions I take and see as the most moral at the moment as it's coming given all other possibilities, within “reason”.

“Utility: That property in any object, whereby it tends to produce benefit, advantage, pleasure, good, or happiness ... [or] to prevent the happening of mischief, pain, evil, or unhappiness to the party whose interest is considered.”

-Jeremey ₿entham

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Discussion

Dan Wedge 2y ago

I am inspired by nostr:npub132vp7xhrl2enqz65338jqe2vkrcax5zf339kdpymw059gcqpmjsq6fm80g and am curious on your own thoughts

The Satokespeare 2y ago

I am humbled that I could inspire you in any way. Thank you for thinking of me 💜

I believe utilitarianism is the moral philosophy most non-theists gravitate towards naturally. The best part of the philosophy is that it’s actually useful(duh!) as in, it could actually help people solve trolley problems.

But there are varying levels of trolley problems it utterly fails at. For example, suppose there’s a murderer, who gets caught, killing him and harvesting his organs could probably save 9 lives, is it moral to do so?

Utilitarian thinking maximising for ultimate human benefit would probably say yes.

So let’s take it a step further, if it’s a thief? Would it be moral to harvest their body then? Suppose the 9 lives being saved were some really important lives of some very consequential people that could benefit humanity greatly? Does it even matter in that case of wether the body we’re harvesting from is of a delinquent, and not just a random inconsequential fellow?

Idk what the right answer is tbh. I’m just stretching the concept of utilitarianism to the extremes so that we’re aware of the breaking points.

My personal philosophy is to live life as if “there’s a god”. They might not be omnipotent. Imagine you’re the main character of the tv show everyone is watching. Do you like the protagonist? This kind of thinking doesn’t answer any questions, but does help you become self aware of your actions, your actions should atleast be justifiable to yourself.

Sorry for the long answer, you touched a topic, as you rightly guessed, that I think about deeply 😅

Do read this book called Moral Tribes by Joshua Greene, it explores morality in a very reasonable manner. Very insightful.

Dan Wedge 2y ago

The trolley thought experiment shows the areas lacking in utility thinking as to the casual observer it looks like a cold thought pattern IMHO

I think the breaking point you mentioned is looked at in A Few Good Men and maybe they got it wrong casting Jack Nicolas as the antagonist. At a minimum the movie places more on civil law than moral standards.

I thought all morning about the way you live. It's one of inflection meant to live a good “moral life” one's beliefs of a higher being need not apply. The “golden rule” of treating others as you would like while prevalent I think can be expanded.

Would the “₿itcoin rule” be lift others humbly to provide value and to remove harm? The maximalists I think focus too dearly on removing harm at all costs.

I greatly appreciate your thinking and the beauty of Nostr is its long form when needed. I thank you for the book recommendation I also think you will find value in nostr:npub16as8gepztj9tvyx6n9y4h3cv3gaytgpl3g32jhcxlj6mcss72uaqjwg2tf s response

The Satokespeare 2y ago

I’m glad it gave you something to think about, I also went through nostr:npub16as8gepztj9tvyx6n9y4h3cv3gaytgpl3g32jhcxlj6mcss72uaqjwg2tf ‘s answers and I can confirm that the Gita is definitely a treasure trove of wisdom, although I’ve only read it in parts.

BTC_P2P 2y ago

I prefer to do what I consider to be “right” or “moral” or “honorable” (given contexts) not because I believe in karma, not because I believe the “lord” is watching or keeping track, not because I believe someone is watching. But because it helps me remain content and in the moment - not left with my subconscious worrying about past wrongs. And because the emergent outcome of people attempting in good faith to do their best in a given circumstance will create better outcomes for all.

Dan Wedge 2y ago

I feel inline with you on this. Do best with what we have in the time we have, inaction is a choice as much as jumping to conclusions

BTC_P2P 2y ago

For sure. Being a conscious being in a highly complex environment is difficult. Fun though.

[ARCHIVED] Jay 2y ago

Ahimsa, which is like non-violence or non-harm.

People cause harm to themselves and others in myriad different ways. In Hinduism, there is a concept of The Ladder of Fall:

"By constantly dwelling upon objects, one develops attachment to them; from attachment there arises desire, from desire there is born anger.

From anger there arises delusion, from delusion loss of memory, from loss of memory one loses the function of pure reason, and from the loss of reason one heads towards destruction."

-Bhagavad Gita, Ch. 2, 62-63

It's a very complex subject and is, in my opinion, the core all of Hindu morality. The Buddha says, Life is Suffering. This is because we bring harm to ourselves by attaching ourselves to the things we desire. Not all that you desire can be attained, so you will inevitably suffer by following that path.

The moral path is then to gradually detach your identity from the things you desire and break the cycle of expectation and disappointment while continuing to act in the world as before. How that is done is the subject of the Gita.

Dan Wedge 2y ago

This is the kind of information I was hoping for. I think we need to start thinking bigger picture if we are to build our citadels to last. I might revisit this but have much to read first thank you Jay

[ARCHIVED] Jay 2y ago

Thinking out decades and centuries is the name of the game 💯

I'll shamelessly suggest a couple more books for you if you are interested someday. But I'd love to know what else you're reading.

Eknath Easwaran - The Bhagavad Geeta

Linda Egenes - The Ramayana

The Geeta is a technical manual for Hindu philosophy and the Ramayana is a depiction of how to practice it. I think it's a fresh perspective for people used to reading classic western philosophers' writings.

OriginalSize 2y ago

Often from what leads to the kind of world I want to live in. Thinking "what if everyone did that" isn't perfect but helps avoid some of the worst outcomes of mob behavior. Also, avoid creating negative states in my mind and the minds of others. It's a deep topic. Glad you asked.