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I don't know mate, I find it hard to believe that governments will lose importance when they have everyone on their payroll and people's needs depend on magic government money.

Direct democracy means mob rule aka information wars, but it's still better than what we have now.

I also don't know how "UBI makes the printer available **equally** to everyone. ".

UBI is just play pretend world, where the money is even more fake than we have now, however, the UBI money will be much more programmable.

I find it hard to believe that UBI doesn't progress into CBDC, but your take is more optimistic.

CitizenPedro 5mo ago 💬 1

I think governments wouldn't lose importance per se, but politics would. Governments would be more of a logistic layer, simple taking care of UBI redistribution.

Because the real battle today is who controls the printer direction. If the printer is directed to everyone **equally** the political battle loses importance.

This is why I think UBI is the greatest weapon against socialist and social-democrats, whom I'm personally NOT a fan of at all. Simple because they destroy all reality and genuine production that people do in the free market.

The moment you teach people that they can have a UBI, is the moment you remove power from all Government baiters. Race baiters, socialist, social democrats, greens, etc, etc. All the government lobbies we know in the world.

If we create a Dividend that cuts from Government and redirects that money to the UBI, that's a way to get the people on our side. If we get the people on our side, we win this "democratic" game.

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Control-Plane Capital 5mo ago 💬 1

What you say is achieved using UBI is actually achieved with productivity growth, money that can't be manipulated (Bitcoin) and deflation without involving governments.

In my eyes there is no battle in regards to who controls the money printers as the same people have always controlled the printers.

Democrats, republicans, greens are just a distraction as they are players in the same script - an illusion for an alternative.

You can't "cut from Government" unless you reject the fake money that your government can print out of thin air, infinitely.

To get the people on our side, we have to show them a World of abundance where 1 person invents a better, cheaper, faster way of doing something and this productivity boost flows to everyone.

Any other alternative means that you constantly inflate fake, imaginary money and steal the productivity growth, keeping the people in slavery mode.

CitizenPedro 5mo ago 💬 1

Sure, absolutely agree. Why not both worlds though? Even Saylor is thinking about this I think. He said in another podcast, "there will be two types of people, the ones that own Bitcoin and the ones that will get some Bitcoin from cleverly constructed redistribution nation-state systems." Now, he didn't say UBI, but I wouldn't be surprised if he actually thinks its the way to go.

Saylor is pretty libertarian and sharp as an arrow as you know, and he has proved to be the master at getting out of the box.

Because I absolutely agree with you, that's my kind of world, a voluntaryist world where all relationships are voluntary. The question really is, do you think people are culturally heading in that direction? I think people are so dependent on government (but like really dependent... it's incredible) that we simply can't move to that free market world without a transitional model, which I think the UBI fits perfectly.

Control-Plane Capital 5mo ago 💬 3

I think it will be both worlds, in that there will be small Bitcoin communities where everything becomes cheaper year after year, and large UBI communities where everything becomes more expensive.

It all comes down to - you can't de-fund and limit a government by accepting the money that the government can print out of thin air.

You can never have abundance in a UBI society where the government sends everyone fake money and everyone can afford everything while the governments inflates the debt away.

You can however move towards abundance in a Bitcoin society where the current inflation is very low and keeps getting lower every 4 years, where all of productivity flows to everyone.

Governments will of course use this to vilify Bitcoiners and paint them as evil and greedy.

It will be the have nots (UBI slaves) vs the haves (Bitcoiners, business owners, etc) + critical thinkers who know how the communist story ends.

"A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw (1944)

If I were you, I'd listen to more Jeff Booth and less Saylor.

stache 5mo ago 💬 2

Dude😳…get outta my frickin head😂🌅⭕️

…good stuff!!

….while these ideas should be debated they need to be a bigger part of the public dialogue (not just in BTC circles)… cuz there is a high probability u r spot on (imho🤷🏽‍♂️)🫡

YODL 5mo ago 💬 2

There is no way you read all that text above

stache 5mo ago

🖕🏾…GFY Mr smarty pants🤨😂😂😂

stache 5mo ago 💬 1

GM nostr:npub162zpxufpw8pnuytaf0gfxzkqtvk9rvcwkvppa7x57y3n7qkfpg4shatdhy …u *sshole🤨😂😂🤌🏽⭕️

YODL 5mo ago 💬 1

Reading this thread thanks to you. It's long and I get distracted often, but it is indeed good

stache 5mo ago

🫡🫂⭕️

Freedom Tech 5mo ago

Marxists are already talking about seizing and redistributing Bitcoin, and government owning AI production, and equally redistributing the results of AI production, instead of focising on using AI to strengthen unalienable rights and individual free agency.

nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgspp4mhxue69uhkummn9ekx7mqpzemhxue69uhhyetvv9ujuurjd9kkzmpwdejhgqg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhx6mmnw3ezuur4vgkhjsen posted a link to a video a while back of a Jewish guy that was using OpenAI's o3 to come up with communistic "post labor theory" for the UN with a commie UBI (universal basic income) baked in.

Leftism is a sad, sad, state of mind that thinks government is the savior of mankind. If anything is taking on the role the Antichrist, it is Socialist / Communist governments.

Control-Plane Capital 5mo ago 💬 1

Thanks mate 🫡

Would definitely be useful to debate these things in wider circles but I suspect that once shit starts going down, fear will overtake logic like every other time.

You can still convert some people though.

stache 5mo ago 💬 1

Tru!!

…hope to see ur voice keep ringing like a bell…imo these are important concepts…and u do a great job of framing them🌅

By the way I can’t zap u🤷🏽‍♂️

Control-Plane Capital 5mo ago 💬 1

Thanks mate, I've intentionally not added my wallet, but the intent is very much appreciated!

stache 5mo ago

😳🤌🏽😂…I like it🤯

…free ⭕️ commercial bias🤔

…just a man and his unabashed opinions🫡🌅

CitizenPedro 5mo ago

Yeah I agree and understand completely. I'm pretty sure we're going to have 10x the countries by the end of the century, due to these new tools.

I definitely see what you're seeing, heck I'm even creating a project for that at https://freevillages.org/ for that precisely, but I do think that in the old schol / current nation state games, there will be movements in the UBI direction if of course that nation state wants to maintain some sort of stability. Otherwise it's just going to be division, and that's where I think new nation states will be formed, in that instability.

But definitely new nation states will be formed. It's not going to be easy but it's going to be very important.

We already live in a Bitcoin world, it's the network that matters, not the country. You and me already live in Jeff Booth's world. The question is how to get real political power (nation-state) and have relationships with the rest of the world.