Nostr Web Client

Comparing a monero sender to a lightning LSP is an apples to oranges comparison. The monero sender is the end user. The lightning LSP is just a proxy for the user. There is no "SP" in a monero transaction.

In both cases the end user knows exactly who they sent the money to (otherwise it would be a poor payment system).

In lightning the LSP is uncertain who the recipient is. In Monero there is no LSP at all.

Not having an LSP at all is better than having an LSP that is uncertain about the payment destination.

Super Testnet 8mo ago

> is an apples to oranges comparison

True, but nonetheless, they can be compared, as evidenced by the fact that you and I have both compared them in this thread

> the end user knows exactly who they sent money to

They shouldn't. If I trade my btc for xmr on fixedfloat, they should not know who received it. Ideally they should not have any useful info about me that they can share with authorities. Who I am is none of their business; they should only know, did I pay the right amount, and if so, how to give me my xmr. The recipient should be as hidden as possible from the sender so that they have as little information as possible about him or her.

And in fact, lightning hides the recipient better than monero. It doesn't show the sender which address received the money (neither the channel nor the htlc). An invoice doesn't tell the sender anything about the recipient except a pubkey which is for communication only (it never holds any money) and often does not even belong to the recipient. If the sender logs this information and shares it with authorities, they don't get very much from it, and in particular nothing they can use to watch the blockchain to see where it moves next. Lightning "receive privacy" is much better than monero in this regard.

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Discussion

cargodog 8mo ago

Lol, so you dodged the main point and decided to argue everything else. Anyone can see for themselves that it would be more private to not have an LSP in the first place, rather than hope that Bolt11 has confused their LSP sufficiently.

I don't think you're actually willing to accept new information here, so no point in arguing. I'm out. Cheers mate 🍻

Super Testnet 8mo ago

It's more provate to have an LSP than not to, for the same reason that it's more private to use 6 tor relays to browse the web rather than the default of 3. The obfuscation method used by onion routing protocols uses improves with more hops between the sender and the recipient, and LSPs count as an extra hop. So it's better to have one than not.

cargodog 8mo ago

Let's agree to disagree. Our time would be better spent building #ecash or #cashu than debating the marginal privacy benefits of Bolt11.

Super Testnet 8mo ago

I suspect my time is better spent improving bolt11 rather than building ecash or cashu