Replying to Avatar Hanshan

Then you should actually WATCH the video.

Yes I am aware that the lightning network is not a blockchain

and that bolt 12 is supposed to fix all of our problems

and also that it isn't implemented yet

As I said

once these solutions are implemented

and tested

and have been around for a little while,

THEN you can start saying that it's a privacy tool.

Until that you're just posing.
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Danny, the cyber guy 11mo ago

I'm done arguing, need to get some sleep

I recommend you to take a look at:

- the bolt11 specification https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/11-payment-encoding.md

- bolt01 https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/01-messaging.md

- bolt04 https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/04-onion-routing.md

- bolt07 https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/07-routing-gossip.md

- bolt08 https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/08-transport.md

- https://www.bolt11.org/ paste in an invoice and look at how it works

bolt12 is only an **additional** privacy layer to what's already provided by the specification I linked you

hey if monero works for you keep using monero, nobody's stopping you, you're a sovereign individual like all of us 😉

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The Bird 11mo ago

Okay so with bolt12, this is going to sound really dumb and I'm clearly trying to figure this out.

Starting address and amount ->hops to node still same transaction nothing is hidden-> next node same transaction two nodes now hiding start point -> next node separation from start point but still same corn so where is obfuscation?

I don't understand this and need someone to explain it like I'm 10. To me even though the node hops and the start point maybe hidden the BTC is still able to be traced back to the original address that started the transaction right? Wouldn't the only way to really hide that be to have it drop in a pool of some sort then piece together totals from the pool mixing with multiple other piles of corn? Like the way whirlpool worked? I just don't get how it works, clearly, unless the start and end aren't important because you're just breaking the node to node until you flip on/off chain then save?

Does that make sense? Sorry I've been pretty sick and I feel like that was a flight of ideas lol

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Super Testnet 11mo ago

>I don't understand this and need someone to explain it like I'm 10

I will explain it to you like you're an adult: it's similar to how onion messaging works. You send an encrypted message to party K, who finds inside an encrypted message for party L. He sends it to party M, who finds an encrypted message inside for party N. And so on. No party knows who the sender is except the sender themselves.

>Starting address and amount ->hops to node still same transaction nothing is hidden

Lots of stuff is hidden: the routing node does not know who the sender or recipient is, nor if the amount is the full amount, a partial amount, or a decoy (aka a payment probe).

-> next node same transaction two nodes now hiding start point

It's not just that "two nodes" are hiding the starting point; the first routing node does not know if the previous person is the sender or just another routing node. So from his perspective there might be *any number* of nodes hiding the starting point. What hides the starting point is that you can't tell a starting point from another routing node.

> To me even though the node hops and the start point maybe hidden the BTC is still able to be traced back to the original address that started the transaction right?

No. Just like with onion messaging, routing nodes can ask one another if they routed the payment, and maybe some will collude and reply "yes, I helped route the payment." But even if all routing nodes collude, they can only ask the sender "Did you help route the payment?" and if he does not reply, they don't know if he was the sender or just a routing node who refuses to collude.