Does #nostr ensures at #protocol level that you will never know how many followers you have ..
#askNostr
Discussion
Duh
Well, that's an interesting way to put it. lol
Effectively, yes.
Take a moment to think about what happens under the hood when you "follow" someone on #Nostr, and it will become clear why this is the case.
Everything on Nostr is a note. When you post something on most clients, that's a short text note (kind 1). When you "like" a post, that's a reaction note (kind 7). When you create your profile, that's a note too, specifically a kind 0. When you update your profile, a new kind 0 note is created and relays are supposed to discard the old one when they see the new one.
Following someone works similar to updating your profile. Everyone you follow is saved as a list of npubs as a kind 3 note. When you follow someone new, the client you are using has you sign a new kind 3 note that it posts to your selected relays, and those relays are supposed to delete any old follow list they have for you as soon as they see a new one.
This makes it very easy to count how many people YOU are following, because the client just has to find your most recent kind 3 on the relays you post to and add up how many npubs you have listed there. Done.
Counting how many people are following you is next to impossible, though. How could it even be done? There is no single list of npubs that are following you that gets updated every time someone hits the follow button on your profile. THEIR follow list gets updated on the relays THEY post to. In order to make an attempt at counting how many people are following you, your client has to reach out to the relays it knows about and ask if it has any kind 3 notes with your npub listed. Different clients may check different relays. Some relays where folks are posting their kind 3 notes may not be checked by any clients at all.
For that reason, follower counts will always be approximate at best.
That make so much sense. Will it ever be changed? I suppose no.
The question is how it could be. Remember, every update to a note needs a signature from the owner of that note.
So, let's say we wanted to have each npub have two lists; one of all the npubs they are following, and a separate list of all the npubs that have followed them. Updating the list of npubs you follow is simple. Your client or signing app will sign for that update when you hit the "follow" button. How will your list of who is following you get updated? You would somehow need to be able to sign when someone else hits the follow button to follow you.
It would be similar to the problem of receiving lightning payments offline for node-on-the-phone services. There would need to be some server in-between that watched the relays for anyone updating their follow list to add your npub, and the next time you came online, it would need to prompt you to sign to update your list of who is following you.
But what about unfollows? That would get even more complicated, because it's not like there is an "unfollow" note that lists your npub as being removed from a follow list. Anyone who unfollows you would simply be updating their kind 3 note to no longer include your npub, and the relays would delete the old note that had your npub on it. Whatever server was keeping track of who is following and unfollowing you until the next time you can come online to sign for the update to your list would need to have a copy of your list and be regularly checking if the npubs listed on it still have your npub on their kind 3 note.
Seems somewhat possible, but it would still be approximate, even though the number you see would be more consistent across clients, because it would rely on that "watcher" server having a full view of the entire relay network, which it never could.
Tracking these types of things is incredibly easy in centralized systems, because there is only one server that holds all of the data. Once you have a decentralized protocol with data being stored in places a large portion of the network may not even be aware exists, it becomes an impossible task.
I was thinking that too.
How do messages work? Send me a note of message that someone follows me and then make me update the note3 with my followers list.
My point is intitially to push a notification or something that is direct to me, is that possible?After the direct note we can update our note 3 with followers. Unfollow also does the same thing, they update their note3 with new lost + a private ping to me. There will be problems with this approach.
When i think more this will not work, i can simply update my note3 to boost my followers lol
See, I am very new and you seem knowledgeable i am just jabbing my points here.
Much love to you ya. I like learning this way when someone attempts to explain. Thankyiu
Right? Anyone would be able to inflate their follower count, unless it required some signed proof from the person who followed you before you could add their npub as a verified follower.
Either way, it would all be unnecessarily complex and would still be just an approximation. Knowing how many people follow you really isn't important outside of an approximation anyway, and the current system is good enough for that.
Who you follow is WAY more important than who follows you. Any random npub can follow you, but who you follow, and who they follow, can be used to build web-of-trust based discovery tools and algorithms to surface content that is specifically catered to you. Likewise, to display your content to people who would be interested in seeing it.
I am just bummed cuz very few people follow me lol. I guess i have trained myself to be valued by my follower count, this is not good. I also feel like my reply to posts are not beind delievered haha cuz no one likes , zaps or reply to me. That is because me being unoriginal😂 who would do that to every post.
Don't feel bad. It can take some time to get traction here, and I sometimes still feel like I am shouting into the void. lol
Just to put things into perspective:
vs
I have been around the block for a while here. Notice the amount sent vs received, too. Just means I have found what others have posted to be far more valuable than what others have found what I have posted, but that's to be expected. There's a lot more of them than there are of me. lol
Also, your journey as a Nostrich usually starts with needing a lot more help from other users to figure this whole thing out, resulting naturally in more outgoing zaps. Then, when you are the one who has the knowledge to help others, you start getting more zaps your direction.
Wooow you really are an OG.
I be stingy with zaps tho. Me poor! Will earn and zap more.
My "First Active" date is a bit off, because I imported my Twitter posts at one point, and it kept their original timestamps. I didn't join until December of 2022 when nostr:nprofile1qyxhwumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmvqyv8wumn8ghj7urjv4kkjatd9ec8y6tdv9kzumn9wsq3gamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwv3sk6atn9e5k7qg4waehxw309aex2mrp0yhx6mmnw3ezuur4vgq3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgsyrcvv9 first started promoting Nostr.
Okok. nostr:nprofile1qqsgydql3q4ka27d9wnlrmus4tvkrnc8ftc4h8h5fgyln54gl0a7dgsprpmhxue69uhhqun9d45h2mfwwpexjmtpdshxuet5qy28wumn8ghj7un9d3shjtnyv9kh2uewd9hszrthwden5te0dehhxtnvdakqc267ea promote the shit outta this. Mma zap him for that we need more users.
All you should care on #nostr is value you received or sent ..#zaps ... rest everything is fake news :-)
On the other hand - knowing how many people zapped you is very simple ! Isn't it ..
So instead of showing you followers , why not show your real admirers .. who sent you some value ..
The effect of this is profound - instead of copying other social platforms ; #nostr should redefine the follow model ..
Showing approximate thing is either #misinformation or #disinformation :-)