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Replying to

Alan ₿

“This is why bananas on a blockchain don’t work.”

— nostr:npub1dergggklka99wwrs92yz8wdjs952h2ux2ha2ed598ngwu9w7a6fsh9xzpc, Memes vs The World

Peace K 🪙 11mo ago

This is a valid point.

Another valid point is that #bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

In other words, Bitcoin is fiat, just democratic fiat. A huge improvement over government fiat, but still fiat.

So how do we bridge the gap? I don't have a solution, bit I have some ideas.

1. A stock exchange where #monero /or another Privacy Respecting Blockchain Token) is used as a payment to handle the transaction. The PRBT will be the equivalent of ether gas payments. The value of the PRBT will quickly be linked to the value of a transaction on the exchange.

2. Gold will be an easier way to start this stock exchange. It is protected under the constitution and some states are in the process of making it money again.

4. Gold storages will put some gold in a special on site custodial and that gold OWNERSHIP will be exchaned. Using smart contracts Gold can be given in exchange for gold bonds.

Gold investors will first buy gold in the Blockchain, exchange them for gold bonds and gain intrest. Each such exchange will require some "gas" in PRBT.

5. Redeeming the gold will be subjected to the laws where the gold is stored.

6. Brokers can swap gold from storage a to gold from storage b. Creating a Universal Gold Token.

7. This is basically a dual / multi currency proposal. Gold as the intrinsic value and a PRBT as a derivative value of the exchange

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Discussion

DasFrettchen 11mo ago

indeed, intrinsic value does not exist.

Peace K 🪙 11mo ago

Actually, it does. Gold has intrinsic value. Value that is derived from it's intrinsic properties.

So does an iphone

DasFrettchen 11mo ago

an iphone in the jungle? after a couple of days it's intrinsic value is that of a rock.

I would say value is dependant on the utility of the thing and the need of the person that is analysing it. which makes it subjective.

Peace K 🪙 11mo ago

Value is subjective.

The question is on what a person bases the value.

Bitcoin is valuable. You can buy a house with it. But the subjective value of bitcoin is not based on any objective property of bitcoin. There is no difference between Bitcoin or any other so called shit coin.

Actually there is no intrinsic feature of bitcoin that you can objectively base anu value on. It has no intrinsic value.

Gold value is also subjective, but it is based on it's objective properties. For instance an electronic manufacturing company might buy gold because it's high resistance to corrosion and high electrical conductivity. Anyone who isn't trying to manufacture electronics won't care about electrical conductivity. Therefore the value of this objective property is subjective.

DasFrettchen 11mo ago

correct, the "thing" has intrinsic properties and that is a reality. How one values that property depends on the individual.

copper is conductive but gold is more conductive, hence if is conductivity you are looking for gold is better than copper.

the theoretical characteristics of money for exemple are durability, portability, divisibility, uniformity, limited supply, and acceptability. The more you have of each the better the money. Acceptability for example is very subjective and geographically dependant.

even money by definition has no intrinsic value, gold and bitcoin included.

I do personally value both, so if you want to give me some I won't say no.

Peace K 🪙 11mo ago

For something to become money it needs to have all the characteristics you mentioned on top of the foundation, which is that it already has value. That is why I doubt Bitcoin will ever become money.

We need some sort of mashup between the two. Gold and Blockchain. As I described in my previous comment.

DasFrettchen 11mo ago

yes, also bitcoin is not recognizable at a global scale (ask my mom, she has no idea).

I see only two problems with the gold+blockchain solution:

1. gold is mined at a 2% every year, meaning supply is not fix and it compounds to a devaluation of 50% in 34 years or so.

2. the oracle problem, how do we keep the peg between the gold vault and the blockchain? if someone steals a kg or the germans invade, the people of indonesia trade with an empty token.

I would say point 1 is weak, since technology makes everything cheaper but I still struggle with point 2.

let me know if you have thought about viable solutions

Peace K 🪙 11mo ago

The first point isn't much of an issue since the population also grows. Relative to human population size the amount of gold hasn't grown much.

Regarding the second point I think the best thing is not to pef the PRBT to Gold, but to the value of a gold transaction. The PRBT will be the gas price to create a transaction. It's value will fluctuate with the demand to do trade.

How does that sound?

DasFrettchen 11mo ago

a little bit beyond me, let me google a couple of terms and read it again :)