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I'm not buying that autism crap. But I knew people personally that died or had serious issues after measles and tick-borne encephalitis. Also covid (my father-in-law died, he got it in the hospital after a trivial surgery). So just fuck off with this antivax BS.
Nice, thank you for your answer. I know it can be an unpopular one around here... How old are your kids?
primary schoolers
"Fuck off" is surprisingly unhelpful when it comes to actual scientific debate.
If you have anecdotes about people dying of something that you think would have been prevented by a vaccine, it's probably useful to add to the conversation.
I'm sorry about your FIL ☹️
Yeah… I could have done without the F/O statement for sure. I’m simply genuinely curious as I have a decision coming up regarding my 1st born.
I'm having the same thoughts right now. Which is worse the vaccination or the disease? which vaccination might be necessary after all?
Herd immunity is important too for those who can't get a shot...
I'm very glad that I delayed and spread out the vaccines for my kids and wish I had skipped some altogether.
I would watch the Suzanne Humphries interview if you haven't already.
Thank you, will definitely watch
I will say this in defense of folks who are strongly pro-vaccine: it's very hard to come to terms with the fact that this new life, which is the most precious thing we can imagine, is vulnerable.
I can fully understand taking any steps that would prevent something awful from happening, and if I had good reason to think that most of the (70 something) shots on the schedule were 1) safe and 2) effective, I would be advocating for them as well.
When we're healthy, in particular when the mother is happy and at ease, well nourished, gets lots of sun, etc - it's much less likely that disease will take hold. That's where I would put my energy.
How much have you delayed if you don’t mind me asking? So far I’ve refused the hep B vaccine for my newborn because my wife is hep B negative and there is a very low risk of transmission in my opinion.
Hep B seems like a no-brainer to me.
I delayed enough that they got no shots when they were small babies. My other guideline was that they never get more than one shot at a time because however weak the safety testing already is, the vaccines are definitely not tested together and it seemed clear to me that each one is a stress on those little bodies. I had a fair amount of resistance in my family, and in retrospect I wish I had held my ground more.
But the kids are good :)
You can read the vaccine inserts themselves. There's a lot in there that I think most pediatricians haven't read.
These seem to be the themes of researchers who buck the pharma narrative: the diseases were already on a sharp downward trajectory before the introduction of each vaccine; many of the illnesses have been rebranded (so we still have something that we would call polio but now it is diagnosed differently); the safety testing is poor, with studies designed very badly; some of the adjuvants are neurotoxins; and there are very few childhood vaccines that have had a true placebo control.
Personally I think the autism issue is a bit of a red herring. I doubt that a particular shot "causes" autism; more that each one is a systemic stress that each child will handle differently. When it's more than the body can deal with, you'll see a range of symptoms depending on the physiology of that particular child.
I have heard impassioned and well-meaning advocates make a decent general case for vaccinations, though I haven't yet heard them rebut some of the themes above. Their main argument is that the diseases are frightening (true), with the assumption that vaccinating against them protects kids (which may not be true).
That's more than you asked for! I hope it's useful to you.
And congratulations!! Babies are the best 🥰
Thank you for this! I think my challenge is going to be able to find a pediatrician in my community that would be okay with a plan like yours. Many around me refuse to take you as a patient if you delay only one vaccine. I’ve managed to evade this by showing that other countries don’t even do the hep B vaccine until 2 months which the doctor agreed with… but now my only option would be to skip the 2 months appointment in 2 weeks and start looking for another pediatrician that would be okay with delay/spreading out the shots.
I'm pretty sure that the timing of of wellness checks is based on the vaccine schedule (not on what the child would otherwise need).
That's why there are more and more of those check up appointments as shots are added to the schedule. When I was a child, we saw the pediatrician maybe once/year, and before that it was probably even less frequent.
In any case, it's a tricky balance! Best wishes as you navigate it.
You sound vaccinated.
Guys seriously? You're throwing away century of proper scientific research on vaccines and immune system responses for a lobby of nutritional supplements shenanigans? For starters, vaccines are there for a reason - the vast majority needs to be immune for those who can't get vaccinated because of specific health conditions. The F/O wording is there because of deaths that could be prevented. In the past and in the future.
It's that when you look closely, "proper scientific research" turns out to be not very proper, not very scientific, and extremely lucrative.
Most vaccines are there for that reason. That doesn't necessarily make them ineffective or harmful, but it does mean that we should eye their marketing with a skeptical eye.
I'm not an immunologist so I can't judge, if the research was done properly or not. But I let my pediatrician to do the judgement. Or do we suddenly not trust those as well because a YT inluencer said so?
I know that there are some great pediatricians out there, and many have started questioning the vaccine schedule - but most pediatricians (whose training is molded and funded by pharma) may not in fact be the best judge of what to inject into children.
(Personally I wouldn't recommend outsourcing one's thinking, whether to an institution or to an influencer.)
To become a pediatrician in my country, you need 5 years of training and 2 years of specialization in at least two institutions. But sure, pediatrician training is "molded and funded by pharma"? How can you believe this shit?
My mom is a pediatrician in Europe and her entire career she’s been flown to exotic locations, wined and dined at the best hotels and restaurants on the dime of pharmaceutical companies. The silent agreement of course is, I exchange you will prescribe our latest and greatest product. How can you not believe this shit?
Vaccines are not greatest and latest products. Food supplements, skin creams and biological drugs is where pharma makes money.
Sure. Pharma doesn’t profit from vaccines. lol.
Nope. At least not from the ones you're mentioning for your kids that have been patent-free for quite some time now.
I was about to say that maybe there's more pharma funding of doctors in the US than Europe, but based on nostr:nprofile1qyfhwumn8ghj7ctvvahjuat50phjummwv5q35amnwvaz7tmrv968xarjwgh8xampwfkhxarj9e3k7mgqyrcmjyd0r3a9vpe78wpm5l42dq2xwpqwp7aa6fj5gk4gpejuyaxzy06fp23 's note, maybe not!
One of the biggest children's hospitals in the US - also a huge teaching school - is part of the University of Pennsylvania. Penn has made tens of millions of dollars on royalties from the covid vaccine alone. The hospital itself has multi-million dollar contracts with Pfizer, with Bayer, with a company called Resilience (biomanufacturing), with Spark Therapeutics .
Penn has collaborative contracts with Novartis, Pfizer and RVAC and BioNTech.
In many pediatric practices, insurance providers offer bonuses to doctors for vaccine target rates among the children.
And as Lebanese Hodl pointed out - and I've heard from friends who are doctors - there's a whole lot of wining and dining of doctors by pharma reps. One of my friends told me about the conferences and then added "I could go out to a fancy steak dinner every single night."
Sadly, most medicine as it is currently practiced is so intertwined with pharma that it's hard to imagine that doctors can make independent judgement and decisions.
