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Serious question from someone who's not that smart, and while I love the Bitcoin ethos I have a hard time understanding why there's not more inherent privacy with BTC that's by default and just easy to use.

Can someone help me out with this. I'm pretty ignorant on the difficulties of coding etc. It does seem though there would be more default code enhancing the privacy and anonymity of users while still allowing for the ledger. I would think this would be by default that didn't require as much to go through in order to improve your privacy. I would also think that this would be a major concern and there would be work to improve this over other issues at this time with the way the world is. I'm not sure though and hoping someone can it explain it to me like I'm 5.

Thanks in advance

#plebchain #asknnostr

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Discussion

Bender 1y ago

I’m also not that smart but I figured the smart guys have a good reason for this.

Take it to 2nd layer for privacy.

The Bird 1y ago

yeah but why should you have to do that? This is what I'm struggling understanding

TheAccountant 1y ago

Because more privacy collides with auditability. BTC has prioritized the fact that everyone can check how many coins are minted at any given time. No airdrops, no printing out of thin air. That is more important that privacy, as important as privacy is. 21M and not one more.

The Bird 1y ago

yeah, but how does the privacy of the user limit audibility? This is what I'm struggling with. The transactions could still be verified I would think.

Ronin 1y ago

If no one can see an utxo, how does the network(everyone and anyone) see if you didn't cheat and made a double spend? How does the network know if there isn't an inflation bug? These are just a few examples, and there are solutions, but like I said before it comes at a cost that usually is too high.

The Bird 1y ago

That's true and makes sense thank you

Bender 1y ago

I don’t know.

In a few years it’s going to be very unusual to use the base layer anyway.

Be prepared to be paying a minimum of $100 a transaction on the base layer.

My guess is 10-15 years it’ll be $1000 a transaction.

Beiner 1y ago

Ok i not smart or know anything about coding. But privacy on btc is possible if you ask me. Buy non kyc btc and dont tell ppl you have btc and never send to an exchange. If you buying non kyc only the person you bought from will know. Your wallet isn't tied to your name so no one will know..

Where bitcoiners messed up was the exchange kyc thing and most ppl are getting it from exchanges

The Bird 1y ago

I mean I get that, but this could be avoided by just having more privacy built into the code right?

Beiner 1y ago

I would think so. But at this point probably trying to implement something like that can break it. Me i think btc is perfect we just need to make buying non kyc easier

The Bird 1y ago

That's fair

Nice and Kind Vic 1y ago

There are other ways people inadvertently reveal themself.

1. When sending bitcoin to another party, they have knowledge of the address(es), amount(s), txid(s) sent from along with those txid date/time/blockheight.

2. When someone uses common wallet tools and interface with public electrum servers (as was commonly the case with electrum for deaktop and mobile and still possible with sparrow), the server they connect with knows there is interest in the addresses or blocks requested and can possibly correlate to IP addresses if done over clearnet. The ISP or VPN provider can also deduce that the source of the request is a Bitcoin user.

3. People using assorted mixers and coinjoin tools expose that they have Bitcoin at those times.

4. People making online purchases inevitably reveal a location to mail goods to.

Beiner 1y ago

Ok im just staying off the internet hahahaha

Bleeding_Orange 1y ago

Great question

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[ARCHIVED] Jay 1y ago

I think the biggest reason is that Bitcoin values first the ability to verify all transactions athat occur on chain.

If you want to verify every transaction, you have to know everything about them. That means you have to know where the bitcoin came from and where it's going. If I didn't know this, I couldn't verify the rules of the network, so there has to be a large trade-off of reduced privacy to provide the clarity needed for everyone to accept valid transactions.

Knowing this, people who want privacy have to come up with clever ways of "hiding in plain sight" to cover up their on-chain activities. Since it's difficult, a lot of people bitch about it, as if being private in other areas of life is any easier. Try maintaining your privacy online or even in your day to day life. You'll find it's hard and requires a lot of discipline. So why should Bitcoin be any different?

The Bird 1y ago

I can't argue against that. It is difficult and the only reason I started going down the privacy rabbit hole. It's been difficult and that's why I'm asking. I honestly had no clue

Kosmosis 1y ago

The ledger is and must be a record of every transaction. The "wallets" doing the transactions must be recorded in the ledger. But those "wallets" are simply a long number. The privacy concerns only come in when somebody can connect a specific long number to a specific person/entity.

If you've bought Bitcoin on an exchange and given them all of your personal information now you have a trail. Breaking that trail will require some extra steps and cost.

If you only ever trade in Bitcoin anonymously then there is no trail.