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Brainstorming (I don't know if there is one good answer). I have a service provider that wants to accept payment for a service as their first BTC. It's not enough to buy a HW wallet.

They will probably do more hodling than paying, but it would be nice to have lightning capability as well. A couple of considerations:

Breez - Percentage fee is 0.4%, which is doable. Non-standard backup (with access to the cloud) that you can't restore on another wallet - will this backup work in 5 years?

Phoenix - A bit higher fee for starters, percentages of the amount will count. It's a non-standard backup, so the question is whether in 5 years when they remember it they will restore it from seed (need access to the cloud, app must work and still be developed, ...). I don't know how the migration to those new sliced channels will work. The backup is phoenix-only.

Muun - not a standard backup, but can do lightning payments and can be recovered if Muun is not developed. It's not a lightning wallet, so fees are always on-chain.

Green - doesn't have a single balance. Option to select non-standard (multisig) but also standard option, though it is incomprehensibly legacy segwit and not taproot. Will have lightning but will need to migrate balance to lightning, there is no unified balance.

Edge, Coinomi, ... - don't have lightning, but they're perfectly standard HD wallets and are cross-compatible. Highest probability to restore using seed in the future.

I understand that the standardness of the backup and lightning are currently incompatible, so I have to choose one or the other. It will be around 2M sats.

Mostly I would like to avoid some rugpull (Blue Wallet stopped supporting lightning) or some old scheme they stopped supporting (some exotic Armory type wallets, ..)

#asknostr

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Discussion

bitcoin.rocks 2y ago

I think Blockstream Green is best for this situation because the user can require 2FA for spends, making it much more secure than your typical mobile wallet.

They also have Lightning support coming soon!

Juraj 2y ago

Yes, but also it's very non standard. You basically rely on them supporting the wallet for years. Otherwise it would require an expert to recover the coins.

The lightning support will be nice, but then again, they have several balances, it's not unified balance like with Phoenix, Breez or Muun. Which is a shame. I don't want to explain the difference between on chain and lightning. It should just scan the qr code and work.

I still think it's a good choice, but I lean more towards the three with unified balance.

bitcoin.rocks 2y ago

Fair enough, there are trade offs no matter what but we are definitely seeing less and less trade offs required as devs continue to build.

Here's to even more user friendly wallets in the future! I agree unified QR is a massive UX improvement.

Juraj 2y ago

BTW I turned off the unified qr, because bitcoiners thought it was onchain only and were scared to pay the qr code with lightning wallet. 😂

I meant unified balance, not unified qr.

But I love both.

cotsoor 2y ago

For me is Bitlifi great onboarding option. I know that it is not "self-custodial" but it works and is very simple for using.

Juraj 2y ago

Custodial is a hard no, especially after the whole blue wallet thing...

Diligent Ninja 2y ago

What was the blue wallet thing? I was away for a while

corndalorian 2y ago

What about Blixt wallet?

https://blixtwallet.github.io/faq

Juraj 2y ago

I'll give it a try again. Why is it better than Breez? It is also lnd with great user experience and unified balance.

corndalorian 2y ago

I don’t know that it’s necessarily a better app, per se, just different. Personally I’ve used Breez more and prefer it for its features and simple UX. Blixt is very feature rich too, but it makes many of the advanced settings accessible via the UI vs. Breez which utilizes a cli for advanced settings/configuration. But like I said I prefer Breez for my situation, and for merchants it has the point of sale interface and NFC support which is nice. I suggested Blixt based more on the ability to restore access to funds outside of the Blixt app, which sounded like a point of concern. If Breez’s current backup and restore option is acceptable for their situation though, then I would suggest Breez.

Juraj 2y ago

Breez backup is just encrypted lnd backup files, so same as Blixt.

corndalorian 2y ago

Both LND yes. Main difference is that Breez requires cloud backups and you can only restore within Breez as far as I’m aware, while with Blixt cloud backup is optional and the UI makes it easy to download channel backups locally and export them for use elsewhere if needed.

Another difference is that Breez utilizes a single balance and on chain transactions always involve a swap. Breez does not give the user access to use the underlying on chain wallet for transactions. Blixt gives the user a separate tab to manage and use the on chain wallet. By default Blixt opens channels automatically with on chain funds, but this can be disabled if the user wants to maintain an on chain balance in the app. Blixt also has a better UI for viewing and managing channels.

I still prefer Breez, but Blixt has some nice advanced features for users who need them.

Juraj 2y ago

No, the "cloud backup" is just encrypted file with lnd backup. You can restore anywhere with lnd.

This feature is nice, but the original question was about new user and I don't want to confuse her with onchain vs lightning and definitely not with channel management.

Safe (as can be done in a mobile app), long lasting storage with send and receive buttons.

corndalorian 2y ago

Interesting and good to know about Breez. And yea for new users Blixt probably isn’t the way to go. I misread what your goal was. Breez is a good balance of features with hiding much of the complexity, at least as much as possible, especially for new or non-technical users.

Cottage Country Hodl⚡️ 2y ago

I sent a coworker $1 on their muun wallet to introduce them to lightning- blink my eyes and they bought 5k in bitcoin and had it on their muun 🙈. They quickly bought a ledger once I explained the risks of HW and benefits of an offline signing device. I would tell them anything over $500 needs cold storage, call me old-fashion. I would rather spend $100 to save $500, but I’m a hodler- it’s what we do.

Juraj 2y ago

Yes, but spending $100 as a first experience with btc is not good for onboarding.

I will give them my book which explains the need for hw wallets.

Muun is quite good experience, when there are low fees. But that might not be the case in 5 years.