Fiat brokers cutting service, from stocks or forex, is very relevant here. As they control the spreads and what liquidity is at a given time. And the huge issue again is sucking people back to the Fiat banking system, from crypto.. making it more volatile. The CIA definitely wants volatility to kill crypto's use-case as a real currency. Having people lever up (And then pull it out as fiat) is the easiest way to achieve this. Further, you're paying interest on money you already had. Am I being hyperbolic about the CIA? Yes. But is this exactly what they want? Yes
Discussion
Of course you are paying interest. It's a loan, duh.
Forget KYC for a moment, pretend this is a p2p no kyc service.
Now, what is your issue?
If I come to you because I need to pay taxes, new roof, or buy a house, but all I have is Bitcoin, that doesn't do me a whole helluva lot of good.
I can A)sell it, or b) borrow against it.
I fail to see why this is an issue.
If it was a DeFi protocol that's no kyc, and keeps the funds in crypto, like a stablecoin. And the person SPENDS THE FUNDS IN SOME FORM OF CRYPTO. Then I'd have no issue with it.
The primary issue is sucking people back to fiat banking.
Keeping it in a stablecoin helps nobody. Currently at least.
I can't pay my property taxes, mortgage, groceries, my childs sports and school fees, my company payroll or car payment in stablecoins. So I fail to see the value. I, and people need dollars for these things not tether.
Nevermind they are all centralized and aml/fincen friendly anyways.
It seems you live in this little fake bubble that doesn't actually have real world expenses and family needs.
Or you are completely full of shit and do spend dollars.
Your company payroll is the number one thing that should be in crypto. The only way to get people to actually use this stuff is to pay them in it.
As far as mortgage goes, there are people on xmrbazaar who sell rent payments for XMR. Taxes are tricky. Children school, you got me there. Groceries try cake wallet, coincards, many options. I don't have kids.. that doesn't make me fake.
SPENDING money in crypto is easy. EARNING is harder. Paying people in crypto is the single biggest change you can make.
Yeah, I get it, but that's all an insane pain in the ass. Like 10 procedures to pay 10 things. No thanks.
As an employer of more than 40 people and multi million dollar annual payross, regs, hr, payroll companies and types of employees, I will say now that there is zero chance to pay them in anything other than dollars
Paying one or two? Maybe. No more.
But 941 quarterly payroll taxes must be in dollars, so must fica taxes.
Mortgage, not rent. My bank doesn't take anything except check or ach.
Yes, taxes is impossible. Currently.
My grocery store takes fiat, nothing else. Gift cards for every food stop? Pass.
I didn't say or at least mean you were fake for not having kids. I said you either live in a bubble where that's possible. And if so, the your arent In the real world like me and others with literally dozens of families and our own counting on us to make sure they can live and support themselves.
I would add fuck taxes and government. But it doesn't mean dick, as I still have to pay.
This world is what you make of it. If you're really in a position of power, with millions in payroll, then that's all the more change you'd have by offering the OPTION for employees to switch over.
And you should be hiring Simplified Privacy to do your corporate emails, website, cloud/docs, internal IT =)
Hahaha
Just sell the Bitcoin to pay for things you want.
Don't take on debt for household necessities, that is some late stage capitalism shot and the most fiat BS imaginable.
Fantastic. So don't use it.
Other may want use it. Who gives a shit? I don't work for Strike, so I don't care what people do, and I likely would never use it.
But there are a bunch of use cases people would want this individually and want short term loans. One of them is cap gains avoidance, particularly short term. By loaning against, you don't have cap gains.
The short term cap gains can be as high as 34%. So a 12% apr could be well worth the cost vs paying cap gains.
If Bitcoin is to become actual money, this will become more and more common, just as are helocs, mortgages, gold loans, loans against stocks, and so on.
People better get used to it. It's only going to become more financialized
One of the main reasons being cited by people is to avoid cap gains.
If "Bitcoin ... become[s] actual money" then surely there would no longer be cap gains? If there were no cap gains there would be less reason to persue this type of product.
Cap gains taxes were introduced in 1913 the same time they founded the Fed. It is a clear approach of asset stripping to introduce cap gains taxes and inflate asset values by increasing the money supply and encouraging everyone to borrow money at articially low interest rates.
Buy P2P KYC-free!
Starve the State!
Seperate money and State!
Don't fall for the traps!
#DontRiskItBisqIt
#KYCNotMe
Fantastic, however it is 2025, and Bitcoin is not cap gains free nor the global standard. The dollar and/or fiat will always exist. Not saying we don't eventually get no cap gains for under XX amount, but we aren't there.
I realize all places globally and within the US, people have different buying, stacking, ownership levels, but it is laughable to me to think that bisq can handle any reasonable amount of Bitcoin in a safe, untrusted way.
There isn't anywhere close to the liquidity needed for many of my needs.
There also isn't a good way to buy it en masse. Cash on the street? Or mail? Yeah, fuck that. Zelle? That's KYC. Revolut? Not really for the USs, and also kyc. Amazon gift cards? Lol, sure.
What do you propose to fix this?
Bisq is good enough liquidity for many plebs.
Doing $2-4k a month P2P is feasible. Is it as easy as Strike? Of course not.
I don't normally get dragged into back and forths with people online. It is not productive.
I believe we agree much more than we disagree, so take that into account when reading and responding.
Should you be spending your time and energy arguing against purchasing Bitcoin P2P? Sure, arguments can be made against it but leave that work to the SDNY.