The free market exists between us.
Discussion
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ew.
the free market cannot exist until fiat dies
The threat to the free market is the State.
cannot have free market w debased money
The market preceded money and doesn't require money to function. A free market determines what is money is and it's subjective value.
It's the State the requires market participants to use their monetary system under threat of violence.
aaaa i think i get it now
i was conflating fiat, Central banks and states?
wait no, nvm im not reading with full focus.
so the free market exists outside the legacy system is what you meant? eventhough the state and extortion exist, free market can still exists and flourish outside of it?
The free market exists despite State suppression. The extent to which it flourishes is a matter of the faith of market actors in the State and their belief in it's authority.
I believe that the market is right now a sleeping giant that is more powerful than the State. That is to say the number of market participants far exceeded the ruling class and affiliates.
love it
The market participants far exceed the ruling class and affiliates, however the ruling class effectively manipulates the market where it sees fit, therefor it is not free.
Its like saying we have democracy. No we have capitalism. Protection and cooperation by the ruling class for the corporations not for all participants. Merger of state and corporate enterprise. The definition of fascism and late stage capitalism.
nostr:npub1flm9yc3vhc3dj036pn3ysl5xwd4f5gyhyjnn9rzehs5mqe9y9ynq6qrg9q nostr:npub1rq9x6sk86e8ccw2cm8gsm4dyz9l24t823elespupaxjnzdk026fsca2r93 this discussion is awesome!
Funny how the world works. I just finished a podcast that broke this exact discussion down into detail.
The fact that money (Fiat) is a creation of the state to wield power/control and the “faith” we have in it is all that is backing it.
As for the market/s they are absolutely a manifestation of the necessity to exchange energy/value between populace. We have used many things as money (sea shells, glass beads, sharks teeth) and they had value because we agreed they did. That agreement gives us the “faith” in said “monetary system”.
and now it does not matter what we agree upon. the ruling class decides when it comes to grocery stores and other necessities like energy. Unless one builds a community with its own energy and food production, one will always be subject to the non-free market influence of the ruling class. Even, purchasing goods outside of your free-market community will affect prices withing your free-market community.
That sounds like a podcast for me. Please send a link.
The free market exists between us for products and services we produce ourselves and exchange with eachother. It exists briefly, but is also affected by the non-free market due to the "externalities". We may succeed in maintaining independent notions of value for some time, but as long as there is a controlled market, our micro-economies are affected by it too. In summary, there is no free market because of the existence of a non-free market controlled by the ruling class and affiliates.
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What a well thought out reply. This is the kind of response for which I long. Thanks you.
I too, have given this some thought. Please indulge me.
>The free market exists between us for products and services we produce ourselves and exchange with each other.
_The market doesn't **exist** perse._
It's somewhat akin to a legal fiction; a conceptual devise that describes a relationship between all people. In that limited sense it exists in the potential exchange of goods and services and beyond those moments of market activity.
>It exists briefly, but is also affected by the non-free market due to the "externalities".
_Only people can be free._
When we talk about a "free market" were engaging in Anthropomorphism. Which is a fine way to discuss these concepts as long as one doesn't lose sight of the fact it's the people actually being intimidated into submission. They are the ones that are not free to exercise property rights.
>We may succeed in maintaining independent notions of value for some time, but as long as there is a controlled market, our micro-economies are affected by it too.
_You're not wrong_.
Freedom cannot be achieved by the individual acting alone. Micro-economies are easily quashed with an overwhelming force of patriots submitting to the ruling class.
>In summary, there is no free market because of the existence of a non-free market controlled by the ruling class and affiliates.
_There is only one market._
It acts differently when corrupted by the State. Like a sick animal behaves differently when it's sick. Healthy tissue and sickness exist within the same organism. Disease that runs uncheck kills the host. Organisms get well when the good tissue overwhelms the bad.
So in summary:
##### We are the Market.
It is a reflection of our beliefs, attitudes, and the resulting behaviors. The market will be free when the people are.