My thoughts here are definitely unrefined, but I am sceptical of the "onchain rush solved by covenants" argument.

1. You're assuming fee volatility. I expect this to reduce over time, as regular Bitcoin usages adapt their behaviour and smooth fees

2. You're assuming wallet infrastructure which is pre-built to handle this case.

3. You're changing the deal, so the *recipient* now pays fees. If you shape things as payment trees, the tradeoff gets worse (approaching twice the weight of just paying normally, requiring that much fee volatility to make sense), and you introduce games between the recipients to figure out who pays fees.

4. You have created a novel financial instrument on fee futures, not something I accept as a "payment", as I have not received it, and you've offloaded an unknown level of costs to me to "collect" it.

5. In real bankruptcy, this is *not what you want*. You don't want your funds stuck on chain. Many might want theirs transferred in one tx to Coinbase. Others will want payment over lightning, or fiat.

6. You can do this badly, today. You can publish a zero-fee tx which pays everyone, or even a tree. That at least proves you have the funds, and can be seen by existing wallets. This, of course, requires the mempool changes which James complains about.

In summary, I don't see congestion trees actually being used: certainly not for this bank-run-in-high-fee scenario.

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Very good points.

It's sad that CTV became the poster-child of those who want soft-forks on Bitcoin since it is kinda useless by itself.

I think interesting ideas using it were eventually proposed…..after most people had given up on CTV 🤷‍♂️

It's not useless.

Yea, I think this is basically why most people dismissed congestion trees entirely when CTV came out…

I think that there was an unfortunate opposite effect, where people dismissed CTV entirely because congestion control trees were (unintentionally perhaps) its poster boy

A couple counter-points:

> assuming wallet infrastructure

> the *recipient* now pays fees

The sender could be the one responsible for getting txs confirmed (CPFPing as needed), which simplifies things a bunch.

You don't really need specialized wallet support in this case, you could just send txs by email (for emergency if the sender doesn't confirm them, typically not used) and have users verify inclusion with some external website/tool.

Given that senders are expected to be exchanges and the like, it seems plausible that users could mostly rely on them to get txs confirmed and wouldn't mind waiting for it to show up. (as long as they have a backup)

Admittedly this does get quite a bit more complicated if the receiver is responsible for fees.

> You don't want your funds stuck on chain. Many might want theirs transferred in one tx to Coinbase.

A cool thing about congestion control is that if the recipient is a custodian with sufficient liquidity, they could credit their customers immediately.

So basically if you withdraw from one exchange into another and provide them with a payment inclusion proof, you won't actually have to wait for it to unroll for it to show up in your balance.

btw I was just recently playing with a simple congestion control implementation written in (an unofficially released version of) Minsc, which might be of interest to people following this thread

It's available here: https://min.sc/v0.3/#github=examples/ctv-congestion-control.minsc

> You can do this badly, today. You can publish a zero-fee tx which pays everyone, or even a tree.

This doesn't prevent the sender from signing double-spends though, making this a promise rather than a guarantee, so I wouldn't say that you can do this today.