they are closed an invite based... I am trying to build a community approach that would fit into a microblogging app like damus. similar to twitter communities. relay chat doesn't really make sense there

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That's really for each individual community to decide right? There can be groups that allow all to join, and I believe such groups already exist in the current implementation

But it’s still relay based no?

A group can exist on multiple relays as well and they can just chose to shift on another one in nip 29 IIUC and there can obviously be multiple groups in a relay

But theres so much crap in that spec when it could have just been nip22. I don’t need 99% of it