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If you want only voluntary relationships and taxes, you may want to check your premises.

I understand the message. It's that real politik vs idealism debate. I'm perhaps more on the side of real politik.

For me I think I'm more focused in bringing a world that is becoming black everywhere to a more greyer area. Not to so much to create microscopic patches of white that in practice only work for very few people.

But both teams are the same, I think it's counter productive when people turn their backs over small details, instead of allying on the big picture and end goal.

I don't for example understand Hans Hermann Hoppe rejecting Milei, when he's bringing about a change to millions of people in his own imperfect way. They all want to go in the same direction, there's plenty of ways to work together and find common ground.

But it's always important to look at the method, like you're saying, to keep the ideal light in mind. I agree there but you know what I mean also I think.

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Discussion

Camilo 5mo ago 💬 2

There's only one reality. And in it we may choose to promote and tolerate only consented relationships or we may choose to promote and tolerate coercion. There's no middle ground nor any other alternative.

CitizenPedro 5mo ago

Sure, we agree there too. The question is which action creates the most consented relationships and which creates less. Because like in the Austrian School, the measure/weight of value is subjective. The same has to be true in moral discussions, because true morality is born or discussed in the real world and thus it's always as complex and subjective discussion.

I think it's the real politik, utiliarian view vs the purist view, i.e more people having access to a 50% voluntaryist system vs less people having access to a 100% voluntaryist system discussion. It's hard to measure but both are heading in the same direction.

This is I think both the purist and real politik people are right and both are necessary, because the measure of necessity/moral value is also subjective by definition.

Camilo 5mo ago

The only moral action is the one that doesn't initiate violence. Hence taxation is not moral.

There's no way to escape this.

Utilitarianism is not rational.