Nostr Web Client

I can't stop thinking about "relay injection".

Scenario:

- I have 4 relays I write to and read from and this forms my overall nostr feed both globally and locally.

- A conference in, say, Amsterdam (call it AmConf) starts up and a nostrich launches a relay just for that conference that I can read from but NOT write to. Only conference attendees/staff etc. can write to that relay.

- I delete one of my 4 existing relays and subscribe to the AmConf relay.

- My entire experience is "re-flavored" because 25% of my relay intake (read) is now from a completely different AND fully themed source (most notes are going to be about the conference since what I'm getting from that relay can only be written by people attending the AmConf).

Am I just getting this whole thing wrong? If I am not then nostr is doing something natively (read this as an 'emergent property') that nothing else does. I started thinking that I should have seen this property in the Fediverse but I never noticed it there. Maybe because most servers are longer lived than nostrasia.nostr1.com (the #nostrasia relay that will be going away now that the unconference is over).

Maybe I'm reading way more into this than I should but I don't think so. I think this is an obscenely overlooked emergent property that adds a vibrancy to the experience that nothing else can. Unless, of course, I have this whole thing wrong and if I do I hope someone tells me.

nostr:npub1xtscya34g58tk0z605fvr788k263gsu6cy9x0mhnm87echrgufzsevkk5s

nostr:npub1l2vyh47mk2p0qlsku7hg0vn29faehy9hy34ygaclpn66ukqp3afqutajft

nostr:npub1lunaq893u4hmtpvqxpk8hfmtkqmm7ggutdtnc4hyuux2skr4ttcqr827lj

mleku 2y ago

the way it will work with nostr is simply that such relays will be used to find their type of content is all. this will also serve to restrict their userbase to those who are not interested.

the discussion is no different when it comes to paid relays either. they will specialise in caching the content requested by paid users.

nostr relays cannot be all things for all people without falling into the silo tar pit trap.

the logic of choosing, caching, and broadcasting content has a lot more work to be done in order to distribute the load effectively.

i've done hosting of various kinds of things for decades and the cost of doing it can grow very fast. solutions will be found, and people who try to pretend there is no problem, until they can't pay their hosting anymore, and then panic and dump content indiscriminately will let down the users as well.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

That last paragraph is very important. As to the entirety of the first part of your reply, do you not think it important that different relays might bring with it a different world?

mleku 2y ago

cryptographic proofs can prevent the falsification of what should be the same data.

the 'different world' is just people's opinions and outputs.

the distinction is very simple, but some people seem to be trying to conflate forgery with the necessary divergence of data stored on relays.

it's completely absurd to expect relay operators to host content they literally cannot afford to host, or to host content that they morally disagree with, no matter whether that's the cult woke relay operator or a hipster cult relay or a christian cult relay or whatever.

opinions are not "worlds" unless you are a cult zombie.

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

We are talking about 2 completely different things at this point.

I am talking about the "flavor" of subscribing to a relay.

You are talking about the veracity of that relay.

If I want to subscribe to a cult relay that is operated by a guy that hates that cult and decides to delete the relay is not what I care about. If that happens then I am definitely shit out of luck. I am talking about a person who understands his/her audience, loves the topic and wants to make it shareable, therefore coloring the feeds of those who also want that content. Like a magazine subscription. I have subscribed to many things in the past that have just went away. It happens.

You are talking about the mechanics, which are important but is not what I am getting at. At least, not in this post but every single thing you have said is an underlying mechanic that supports the structure of the very thing I am positing here.

mleku 2y ago

you are talking about muddling up the boundaries between presentation and delivery.

a curated feed is a presentation feature, something you can do with an app.

it simply makes no sense to put it in a relay, relays should be focused on delivering content that they are being paid to deliver.

it's a feature that belongs in the client, not in the server.

i'm not simply talking about mechanics, if you don't respect the ontology of a computer system, you will eventually break it.

i say this from experience having actually broken my own projects by mixing up where certain operations are done, and after the app gets to a decent number of features, having processing done in the wrong part makes it really hard to fix and/or extend the application.

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

You said it right here: "relays should be focused on delivering content"

That's what I'm talking about. Different relays delivering different content that mixes with a user's other content and whatever client/app they are using should be able to render all that content.

It's really no more complicated than that.

mleku 2y ago

"should be able to render that content"?

this last 12 hours i encountered content, in the form of hyperlinks to DRMed spotify link previews, which caused my LIBREWOLF browser make it impossible to capture screenshots while said object was loaded in the visible page, and on top, because i had disabled DRM, i get a popup snack bar that distracts me and consumes screen space, on top of the fact i was now also unable to capture screenshots.

some content should be much more easily blockable too.

i don't want to render any DRM content, ever. the day that youtube starts using widevine, will be the last day i ever use youtube. spotify's garbage was chewing up CPU processing and memory and slowing down my nostr client "rendering that content".

not wanting to nit pick exactly, just to point out that some content is borderline malware.

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

I have none of the problems you are having so we are coming from 2 completely different paradigms.

mleku 2y ago

i bumped into a bug before you did. maybe it was one you'd never bump into because you dgaf about DRM and you are ok with outside entities having total control over part of your computer. i don't think you would be if you understood it.

it's not a bug, in this case, it's a feature. but for this user, this is a bug. just because it's a bug you would not run into doesn't mean that it's not a bug that is a problem and has deeper roots than you want to acknowledge because it's too much new information for you at once to understand this principle of software architecture.

you'll understand what i'm saying in the future, for now, this is just a data point that you may or may not absorb and hopefully will, and later on, will make positive use of it.

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

Are kind1's DRM or otherwise inaccessible to you?

mleku 2y ago

causing interference in my free use of my own computer is a partial inaccessibility to my own physical property.

the DRM embedded in the link inside a kind1 caused a string of seemingly unrelated problems in my use of my computer because the DRM takes over part of my computer.

it made screenshots unaccessible to me. it made my browser, generally, run a lot slower, and slowed down my nostr client web app.

it would be easier for you to acknowledge that DRM is stealing control of my computer from me and not to try and argue that i'm off topic, because anyone can learn that's what DRM does if they care to do a few minutes research.

Nunya Bidness 2y ago

mleku 2y ago

just go to your settings on your browser and try to disable DRM and see if you don't have problems.

if you use brave or a chrome based browser, you won't have problems. but with firefox, there is huge problems.

i mainly want to point this out because mozilla virtue sigals hard core as being some sort of defender of freedom and they aren't, and i want people who believe in freedom to understand they are being lied to.