Replying to Avatar Dikaios1517

Hadn't thought about it that way, but you're absolutely right. So long as spam isn't an issue, there's no demand for paid relays. No one feels any pain from not having them. Therefore, the best way to drive demand for paid relays is to generate spam.

That said, I wouldn't accuse any particular paid relay operator of being behind the recent spam attack without some pretty damning evidence, and I don't think anyone has accused any particular relay operator. At least not that I have seen.

Chances are that the bulk of what most of us would consider spam is just being perpetrated by people who like to cause trouble simply because they can, or because they think they are making a point.

Spam on public relays is inevitable, no matter who may be behind it. You will find it on any sufficiently large network where the following are true: 1. It's free and easy to create new identities on the network. 2. New identities can write data others will see without a cost.

On Nostr, we're not able to make it difficult to create a new identity. Nor would we want to. That means our only option for mitigating spam is to impose some form of cost for new identities to write data to relays that others will see. Public relays impose no cost at all, so they are guaranteed to have spam.

The three typical means of imposing costs to writing data to a relay are social, computational, or monetary. WoT relays would be an example of social cost to gain write access. PoW relays would be computational cost, but we hardly see any of these in the wild since most clients don't support adding PoW to notes. And, of course, paid relays come in as the monetary cost option.

It's a tough nut to crack, though, when you are trying to encourage the network to grow. We WANT new users to come here, and we want them to have a pleasant experience so they will stay. Adding social, computational, or monetary costs in their way is antithetical to that goal. Yet, new users are also the ones most likely to be spam bots that will make the experience of new and existing users alike unbearable. Costs should therefore be imposed in such a way that they are virtually unnoticeable to legit new users, but are prohibitive to spammers.

I have a couple ideas how that might be achieved.

some combination of invites and WoT is the only way I see short of imposing a direct cost

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Discussion

Yes. Inviting someone to Nostr should come with some way to be notified if they accepted the invite, so you can immediately follow them, bootstrapping them into your web-of-trust. I believe nostr:nprofile1qqsd7ele5ljpzft5tjl84naae5pkj9uqcepa77adwr6ayyy0948uyqqh59wgx is working on something like that with https://nostrmeet.me/

Another thing clients could do is default to adding a certain amount of PoW to new users' notes, defining new users as those with no kind 10002 relay list, or no notes on their outbox relays with a timestamp older than X number of days. The exact number of days someone should be considered new is debatable and each client could use a different length of time. Then, clients could default to showing notes from npubs outside of the user's WoT that meet the minimum PoW. Coracle has the latter option, for instance, but no default PoW added to notes for new users.

The above could even be paired with a feature like Nostur has, where you have a few seconds to cancel a post before it is written to your relays. That way if you see a typo, you can cancel and fix it before it is permanently on display. During that few seconds, the client could be performing the required PoW.