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Can someone please explain some bitcoiners’ love of fossil fuels?

Why the intense love for coal? Haven’t wars been fought and thousands died over oil?

I understand the issues with solar and wind. The projects are currently subsidized by the government. The supply chains are plagued by slave labor and human rights violations. They are intermittent, which can decrease reliability and grid stability.

At the same time, the energy is generated domestically. We reduce our reliance on other nations. We don’t need to go to war over oil. Further, the pairing of bitcoin miners and wind/solar farms may become quite profitable and help stabilize the grid.

Nuclear is incredibly promising due its energy density. Its issue stems from the regulatory oversight, capture, and hurdles. I have no concerns about its safety—just the regulatory environment.

So why coal? Why oil? Don’t get me wrong. These are power fuel sources.

What if we viewed the challenge of solar/wind/nuclear instead as opportunities for value creation/potential profit? We don’t walk away from nostr and other tech because it’s not in its final, optimized state. Devs stay and build. Why wouldn’t we expect the same with wind/solar/nuclear tech? Why wouldn’t the tech improve and be more compelling over time?

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Discussion

HoloKat 2y ago

You can improve all you want and people are working on that but the fact remains most energy comes from traditional sources.

kale 2y ago

True. Some grids, like ERCOT, have seen their energy mix change rapidly, though.

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

What do you mean 58.9% of miners use renewable sources. A better renewable share than most countries, states, cities and individuals.

kale 2y ago

I was touching on a common view on bitcoin twitter that fossil fuels = good and solar/wind/nuclear = meh/not good. Why is that?

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

Not sure where is this coming from. Virtually all Bitcoiners i see on Twitter think nuclear is better than everything else. Almost no one is against renewables (in fact they like the fact that Bitcoin can stabilize the grid because of renewables)...

kale 2y ago

I see a lot of people pro-nuclear. Some—like Troy Cross—are concerned the regulatory environment and time it takes to build out a new plant don’t make it that feasible of an option.

As for renewables, most miners are pro-renewables. I agree there. Commentators like Saif, Marty, and Steve Barbour are quite against renewables for the reasons I stated. Their voices carry weight.

Vitor Pamplona 2y ago

I have been 10 years in Bitcoin Twitter and never heard about Saif and Steve Barbour. Apparently their voices are not that big.

elsat 2y ago

There are many misconceptions in your thread. To help you think more clearly, you could read or listen to Alex Epstein. Fossil future. The moral case for fossil fuels.

Nuclear is great, and the safest form of electricity gen afaik. It is practically outlawed due to red tape.

Solar, and wind are intermittent. These unreliable energy sources do not remove need for reliable el gen. You, me, and those with access to 24/7 electricity would not accept electricity for a few hours a day. Storage tech is not there today. Solar and wind are critically reliant on manufacturing in China.

Oil is needed for transportation. There is no second best.

Coal, and nat gas are abundant in the US. Using these secures electric supply domestically.

Last and not least coal, oil, and gas provide a variety materials, you, me, and everyone we know use daily. Without these there is no cell phone, laptop, surgical tool etc..

Design ₿ 2y ago

I think it is mainly a logical reaction to the blind push for wind/solar at all cost. They are simply not more ethical nor sustainable if you do the full value chain accounting. After 30 years of subsidy they are still a low % of the grid while being completely dependent on unethical labor camp mining of cobalt and many other precious metals. How is this a moral or environmental improvement. Hydrocarbons in many cases (most) is still more economically sound & less environmentally impactful. It’s just math and logic.

Plus, try melting steel & aluminum with wind turbines & solar panels.

BTW, I am a life-long hard core environmentalist.