But aren’t “ends” always subjective? A person might think they’re noble, like “stopping covid from spreading”.

And to meet this end they make the population suffer by lockdowns and un-tested vaccines? it’s just an example, but my point is are the “ends” ever going to be able to justify bad actions?

Also I’m assuming here that in the cases we are talking about the means are always bad because if you can get your goals by harmless actions, nobody would care.

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I agree that we should not allow any government to use bad means to accomplish anything. Government inherently must be limited to avoid atrocities. There are situations I can imagine for individuals in specific circumstances where I could be persuaded the ends justify the means.

Can you give me an example? Sorry 😛 I’m writing a story where this is the major question that all the characters have to come to terms with and would love to have some examples, especially in cases of individuals.

Do you consider teaching children lies a bad action? In countries where porcupines are prevalent, children get too close to porcupines and get injured. This can be avoided for families that teach their children the lie that porcupines can throw their quills. The kids stay far away from them and are injured way less often. It is less effective yo simply tell the kids the truth that porcupines are dangerous to touch. It is wrong to teach lies as truths to children but I am convinced that the ends justifies the means.

Hmm, children do need protection, I guess if the government was doing the same thing to adults it wouldn’t fly, because they can make their own judgements.

But a well-meaning stupid person can easily extrapolate this to the examples we discussed earlier. Interesting.

Thank you! gives me a lot to think about.