denying palestinian rootedness or framing palestinians as outsiders or terrorists misses the point. palestine existed as a real place with a real people long before modern borders. palestinians are an indigenous people, not recent immigrants. military occupation and collective punishment by israel won’t bring peace. many israelis recognise this.
Discussion
There was no military occupation for 17 straight years, during which time they received enough international donations to build Gaza into Dubai. Instead, the leadership built a terrorist state. Is everyone that lives there a terrorist? No, but their government, all of its soldiers, and the various Iranian-funded militias all are.
I completely agree with the majority of Israelis who know that the current actions by Netanyahu are not going to being peace, what he’s doing is just as wrong.
Lastly, unless you’ve got proof I’m unaware of that predates the Bible, all archeology from that era, a host of other non-religious texts from the time, and DNA evidence, they absolutely are not the indigenous people of Israel, by literally any definition.
israel bears state-level responsibility for the violence, dispossession and human rights abuses. this cannot be equated with the actions of a stateless, occupied people under siege.
the question of indigeneity isn’t about who was first in biblical or ancient terms, but about a people’s deep, continuous connection to a land over time. palestinians are descendants of the many communities who lived in historic palestine. their presence spans eras, and they’ve maintained cultural, social and familial ties to the land throughout. international bodies recognise palestinians as an indigenous people because of this historical continuity and because they’ve experienced dispossession, displacement and denial of self-determination in their own homeland.
i'm not saying jewish people don't have deep historical and cultural ties to the land. the problem is not with jewish identity or presence per se. it is with the actions of the israeli state, which has enforced occupation, displacement and apartheid policies that deny palestinians their basic rights.
Have you ever been there?
no
lol nostr version of douglas murray and dave smith
Ugh, fine, I'll finally watch it. Been meaning to.
Didn’t think so. No one that’s strolled through Tel Aviv or Jerusalem could call Israel apartheid.
Jews, Muslims, Christians, Arabs, Druze, Palestinians, Persians… all living peacefully together. All living in fear of terrorist rocket fire and having to be constantly aware of exactly where the nearest bomb shelter is. Most even have one in their homes.
When Israel withdrew from Gaza nearly 20 years ago and gave them autonomy, there was no wall. Not even all of it was fenced. Israel anticipated peace. Instead there was an unending stream of attacks, rocket fire, and suicide bombings coordinated by the government and often funded by Iran. That’s why it’s walled off now. That’s why Egypt walled off their border with Gaza, too.
this isn't about your perception of tel aviv or diversity in the cities. apartheid refers to the broader system where millions of palestinians live under occupation, siege and separate legal systems in the occupied west bank, east jerusalem and gaza. gaza was never given full autonomy. israel retained control over airspace, borders and sea access and imposed a blockade in 2007, which has created a humanitarian crisis. your portrayal of hamas ignores these broader conditions that fuel cycles of violence. palestinians cannot vote in elections, lack freedom of movement, and live under constant surveillance/raids/checkpoints and violence. if that isn't apartheid then i don't know what is.
We’re going in circles. You’ve been fed misinformation and seem unwilling to see through it, or even read what I’m writing.
/endthread
That’s not what indigenous means. By that logic, parts of my family are indigenous to America.
Stateless occupied people under siege? They had autonomous control over Gaza for 17 years. They’ve been given the opportunity to claim it as an internationally recognized state at multiple times since WWII, but turned it down. Hamas brought the current siege upon them, and Netanyahu took it too far.
Over that 17 years, they took in enough international funds to build a paradise. Instead, they built tunnels, stockpiled weapons, committed countless suicide bombings, continuously fired rockets at Israel, and coordinated a state-sponsored terrorist attack that savagely murdered, raped, and tortured a percentage of the Israeli population equivalent to three 9/11s. They even filmed themselves doing it.
Does any of this justify the extent Netanyahu has taken to destroy Gaza? Of course not, but pretending they are innocent OR indigenous is absurd on its face.
Again, to be clear, not every Palestinian in Gaza is a terrorist, the vast majority deserve peace and freedom, but they voted for Hamas, a terrorist organization, to be their government. Hamas never let them vote again and has since used them as human shields for their extremist intifada.