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It means missing something, most of all. Lack. The need to economize resources. The need to fight and the inevitable end.

It doesn't mean guilt. That's Catholic.

Daniel Wigton 1mo ago

Guilt is Universal? Sounds right.

But I really am unsure what people mean by Catholic guilt. Sin is missing the target. The target is that which is good. Thus the lack induced by missing it is a lack of some good. Who's fault is it that there is less good? Whoever did the aiming. That's me. I am guilty. That is the reality of sin.

But guilty doesn't mean culpable and it doesn't mean shame. It is hard to fault someone for missing a target that they were unaware of. If you thought the target was the tree 3m to the left of the target I can't fault you for hitting that instead, but there is still less good in the world as a result and it is still your fault.

This is why Catholics emphasize the duty to inform your conscience. By studying God we can learn what we should really be aiming for. You might phrase it in a secular way like "be a little less wrong every day"

This is also why God seemed so selfish at Mount Sinai. The first commandment he gave was. "I am the Lord your God you shall have no other gods besides me." This sounds like He is full of Himself. But what is really happening is that God knows that humans focus on, or aim, at the thing they worship. If you constantly think about money, that is were you will aim, that is effectively what you worship.

Aiming at God means aiming at the purest ideals you can conceive of. Perfect love, perfect truth, perfect justice, perfect beauty. Never being satisfied with our understanding means we can get ever closer to hitting the mark.

Shame is not something encouraged by the Catholic Church. That is the Devil discouraging you from aiming higher. Those are feelings that creep in when we know the target, but miss on purpose, because we value something other than God. Add an "o" for the atheists. We value something other than the Good.

The real things you will find we emphasize are forgiveness and mercy.

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Discussion

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

do you think a merciful God expects a creation that is finite in its fundamental nature to be without flaws? you know what aliasing is in sampling theory right? you always get errors when you sample, even at planck length, most likely.

the logic of the catholic doctrine of universal guilt is a perversion of this understanding. the latin word "sin" doesn't mean "missing the target" it means "without" and what we are without, is perfection, which is impossible in God's creation.

you don't need time, with perfection, to mature something to an always better state. so there would also be no free will to decline the invitation, and that's what it is.

you don't worship idols, because you are wasting your time, and your life is a precious gift

you don't steal, because you are wasting everyone's time, destroying wealth

you don't dishonor your parents, because they did the best with what they had, mostly, unless they are sickos, of course

you don't lie, because lying wastes your brain in endless new fabrications that can't be used to learn anything new

you don't kill for personal gain (murder) because it lowers the wealth of your society

all of the 10 commandments, and the mandate of Jesus and the fulfillment of the law, are not cruel punishment. they are for your own good.

the reason i can't abide catholic (and its forks) doctrine is precisely because it contradicts the whole God is Love thing. no, i don't need an intermediary. i am called to pray on my own account and to use the gifts i was given to help make the world a better place.

the heart of the average catholic is in the right place but the superficial details, the doctrines, are outright lies.

Daniel Wigton 1mo ago

Catholic doctrine does not contradict "God is love" it is the fullness of it!

Of course God knows we can't be perfect! But He also knows that we can strive to be.

That reality leads to a logical contradiction.

-God is love.

-Thus God wants to be united in love with His creation.

- creation cannot be God this is not perfect

- nothing imperfect can be united with God

Catholicism is the story of God making up the difference for us, so we can be united to him. But as you said, it is our choice, which God respects.

The church exists, not to come between you and God, but to provide a highway for you and God to come together.

The visual I have is that people look at the church and see a bunch of stones blocking their way. "Look at all these stones" why erect a wall between me and God. But if they lift their eyes from their feet they will realize that it is not a wall, but a smooth road straight to God. All those rules are there to bear your weight for you, not to get in your way.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 1mo ago

God is making up the difference for all of us, regardless of allegiance to some self-declared mediator governing all the local parishes. inspiration doesn't restrict itself to people with some particular set of beliefs. i am only saying that the logic is not, with all those ornaments the council of nicaea put on the original texts, and the active suppression of understanding of the nature of the holy host whose job it is to help us out of our mess, because otherwise the people might start to think that maybe those "mediators" are actually predators.

the local priests, and deacons, they are legit.

everything in rome is babylon.

YODL 1mo ago

Putting pin in this exchange. Too early/heady for now