What is incorrect?
Discussion
Lightning is more private than Monero for many reasons. Supertesnet has explained it many times, and it's not something quick and easy to explain, and right now I'm tired 😴.
Ok
He doesn't know he's wrong thus he can't disprove it. He's incorporated Bitcoin as a core facet of his identity thus acknowledging that it is inferior in some capacities to other projects would require him to fundamentally change his self image. Notice on this post or any others where I or other have had this debate with him, he's incapable of even providing a counterargument. Only "that's incorrect" or "Monero is a shitcoin" or the best one "muted".
> He's incorporated Bitcoin as a core facet of his identity
Seems to me you have done the same with Monero.
I'm a privacy and self sovereignty maximalist. That is my identity.
I'm interested in any form of private money, cash, gold or other crypto projects.
Cool. So why the urge to shill your shitcoin to every Bitcoiner out there?
I'm no shill, I don't care if you buy Monero it doesn't affect me at all really. I have an issue when people like nostr:nprofile1qqs0eac2gh86s9l24qfmnw52xawhz0f3d862yleaetpafygjmanaxlspzdmhxue69uhhqatjwpkx2urpvuhx2ue0qy88wumn8ghj7mn0wvhxcmmv9uq3uamnwvaz7tmwdaehgu3dwp6kytnhv4kxcmmjv3jhytnwv46z7ramexg claim that Bitcoin is just as private or even more private than Monero. Its a dangerous falsehood that can land people in trouble with authorities.
Bitcoin is is Bitcoin, it's a transparency coin with layers and techniques you can apply to obfuscate the transparent bits with varying degrees of tradeoffs.
Monero is a rengineered Bitcoin using the transparent blockchain technology and applying multiple layers of obfuscation into each transaction, by default to a much greater degree than even a lightning transaction from a channel opened with a taproot transaction from a whole coinjoined UTXO.
Also the reason I know Bitcoin and Lightning to this level is because I use it too. Specifically with Zeus on a channel opened with a UTXO I got from Retoswap by swapping Monero. For low stakes stuff with small amounts like zaps, it's better than Monero because it's faster and doesn't have tax implications.
Is that me making Monero my identity?
Maybe not more private, but in certain situations lightning can be as private as Monero. nostr:nprofile1qqszrqlfgavys8g0zf8mmy79dn92ghn723wwawx49py0nqjn7jtmjagppamhxue69uhkummnw3ezumt0d5q3vamnwvaz7tmjv4kxz7fwdehhxarj9e3xzmny478z2v has done a ton of research and testing on the topic. If you’re interested, check his npub and search by key word “Monero”. Certainly Monero’s opt out privacy is better UX than Lightning’s opt in privacy. One doesn’t require special skills and effort to be private, the other does. My beef with Monero is not technical in nature. It’s not the first shitcoin to be technologically superior to Bitcoin in some aspects, inferior in others. To be fair, of all the shitcoins out there I think Monero is the least shitty and the most honest. And your culture right now is more pure than the one in Bitcoin (you have your priorities straight). I also think you won’t get much bigger compared to Bitcoin, so you might be able to retain this cool features.
Oh nice we're mostly in agreement I think. I too don't expect Monero to moon compared to Bitcoin and wouldn't want it to since it would almost certainly require increased paperization through custodial holdings. I too agree the Monero culture is more pure and focused on usage. Like I said Lightning's got some great advantages and I use it myself, and I have a good level of confidence in its sending privacy with my setup. most don't have a setup like mine though and even learning how to do so took me longer than even setting up my public Monero node, thus its a non starter for most who settle with custodial solutions.
In fact, Lightning is very similar to the Tor network. It does not keep a record of transactions like Monero, nor is it a type of coinjoin like Monero with 16 decoy addresses. The information is simply encrypted, and it is impossible to know how much you are sending or where the funds are coming from. As I mentioned, the same applies to the recipient with Bolt 12 or Bolt 11 with blinded paths.
I think part of the issue is if someone hears lightning is more private then Monero then opens strike or WoS and starts sending sats is it really private? A lot of this comes down to the user and their ability to run a lightning node over tor and fund channel liquidity. Channel liquidity is also a limiting factor for the size of tx you can send. Again I’m not bashing lightning it definitely has a lot of positives but Monero you are not limited by tx size and privacy works as default not dependent on the user to do it right. I’m trying to be unbiased as I use all 3 so I see benefits and drawbacks of all of them. Bitcoin, lightning and Monero. Using all 3 works well for me for different purposes. I wish they all were one.