I didn't say you said that. I'm just saying that's all sort of part of the same modern narrative frame and I question that knights in the "dark ages" were all a bunch of rapists. Or that women were generally oppressed in Christendom. The whole "dark ages" vs "enlightenment" thing is pretty loaded. What were knights and kings actually like? I'm not attacking you personally, man. I'm just not sure I buy modernity's story anymore.
Discussion
I never said what modernity’s story was. I was only talking about how “chivalry” came with significant down sides that most are unaware of.
My overall point was that we remember the past more favorably than it actually was.
No, I said what *I* think modernity's story is. Speaking for myself and not trying to put any words in your mouth at all.
Chivalry was a code of honorable behavior created by christian military leaders to stop their soldiers from misbehaving on campaigns (such as mistreating peasant women) because that's part of what happens when you take soldiers into the field.
The old chivalry manuals, from before it got perverted into the modem romantic thing by Elanore of Aquitain and her Troubodours writing the King Aurther soap operas, were very solid and based.
I agree with your general point on nostalgia, I just disagree with that particular example. I think that one goes the other way around. The middle ages get a bad rap.
Sorry, man. I'm picking a nit and being pretty autistic here and I acknowledge that. I have taken an interest in this bit of history and I've been really surprised by what I found. Very decentralized and free. Hard living, but just because of nature mostly. One of the best times on human stuff. Very decentralized too.
Modernity just teaches us to think it was oppressed to deflect from the fact that modernity is actually way more oppresive on a human level.
Chivalry’s root is not Christian though. It comes from a cult that infused their values into that specific culture in order to keep a semblance of their beliefs alive because Christians were wiping out all alternative faiths.
I’m pretty sure life in modernity up until 9/11 is much better than living during the dark ages. I’d rather not deal with freaks burning witches and forcing me to sit in a church every Sunday
Man, where did you get that chivalry is not Christian? I am just not sure what to do with a claim like that. I have literally read the early chivalry manuals and they are definitely Christian manuals on moral conduct for soldiers written by Christians for Christians and full of Christian values.
I agree that life in the modernity was soft for a while, compared to starving because of a drought or or something. But that wasn't because of kings or knights. That was because of technology and we definitely have better tech now. Culture is another question.
I get that you might not like the idea of going to church if you are not a Christian and that's fine. Christians believe in free will. I don't think it was ever a wide spread thing that anyone was forced to go to church by anyone other than their parents, and parents do need to make decisions for kids.
Chivalry is about as Christian as Santa Claus
Christians say they believe in free will but they didn’t respect the free will of Galileo and his heliocentric theory
Gallileo was a egotist who made his own problems. They just wanted him to get proof before he published. Which he didn't have. The problem wasn't his theory, it was being as asshole about it.
Now everybody believes in fake science and orderly proof has been replaced with a popularity contest. Is this better?
Is your problem with chivalry because of feminism? If so, I agree. All that sir lancalot adulterous "courtly love" bullcrap is not real chivalry. The real thing was literally a Christian code of conduct for soldiers. It's that simple.
Check out "In Praise of the New Knighthood" by St. Bernard of Clairvaux. 1126. Written for the Knights Templar. That's the real thing.
BTW, fun fact, St Nicholas was a real guy and Arius certainly found out how real he was when he smacked the blasphemy out of his mouth at Ephisus.
And he actually did sneak into a guy's house once to leave gifts. It was doweries for the old widdower's daughters so they didn't end up as prostitutes. Based guy. Not currently riding around with flying reindeer however.
Sorry, Nicaea, not Ephesus.