Replying to Avatar MAHDOOD

Current tentative thoughts on op return.

I haven’t decided what I’m going to do with my node yet but I’m starting to understand why core wants to remove the filter. I don’t like spam and bullshit on the blockchain but this is a free market. If people want to pay for it to be there, and it helps miners, then what is the problem? 🤷‍♂️

One of the arguments made on the podcast:

People are paying large miners directly to put their spam in the blockchain. This is bad for miner decentralization because small miners don’t get a chance to profit off those fees since they are being filtered out. The op return filter is basically giving large miners guaranteed business and small miners get screwed. This is bad for miner decentralization.

I would like to know what the strongest arguments are for removing the op return filter. I don’t care about virtue signaling or any moral arguments. I don’t care what should and shouldn’t be on the blockchain. Tell me why filtering out the spam is best for the security and longevity of the Bitcoin network.

As of the writing of this post, 2 of the last 3 mined blocks have about 500 transactions in them. The next upcoming block isn’t even full and mempools look like they’re going to clear. Mining fees are at 1 sat/vbyte. Again I don’t like spam, but isn’t this a profitable way to secure the network when activity is low? Especially with so many people buying ETFs, there is little reason for those retards to use the blockchain.

https://fountain.fm/episode/owWcgNnmXx1r1vqOG2GG

The thing that really turned me against the filter was the realization that all the pissing and moaning was about mempool. They are still validating all those transactions and storing them forever as part of the chain.

That means the effect for knots runners is only a less accurate mempool. Everything else they say is pissing upwind because they won't, and can't fork the chain. They are storing it all forever just like core runners.

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Discussion

Agreed. Knots is a dead end. Sorry to everyone who wasted their time on it.

Idk if it’s a dead end but Luke lost his Bitcoin because he didn’t store it properly on his computer. Idk if I wanna trust that guy to secure my node.

I don’t understand that part. So all this crying about the end of Bitcoin is just a mempool problem? The spam is still on the blockchain of knots nodes?

A less accurate mempool is a problem for lightning too.

Just mempool. Knots users store the exact same chain and validate the exact same blocks as core users.

And yeah, when spam is low not a big deal. During spam rushes where spam is paying 600s/vbyte you run a real risk of getting robbed for a lightning justice transaction by filtering your mempool when no one else does.

Every knots person I asked if they were willing to fork chains over it said no. The quiet part there is that they are just virtue signaling then.

Luke's shenanigans like begging poverty to the community then losing 100 coins from a hot wallet and blaming core devs are a whole different issue. They are an issue for sure.

I still mine with ocean for my pool mining but I use the no filter endpoint to do it.

See where I’m confused is the chain split possibility. I heard that knots and core stuff can lead to a chain split if certain conditions are met. But I couldn’t understand how that’s possible. That’s my only concern and the reason why I haven’t done any update to my node.

But I agree this all just seems like virtue signaling. I don’t like spam but people are trying to make Bitcoin uphold some moral standard even though they’ve spent years talking about how Bitcoin is for enemies. That means Bitcoin is also for retards that want to waste money on spam.

Pedantic...

Chain split, no one has perfect knowledge so for a bit 2 different chains of the same length but different blocks exist. Eventually 1 chain takes the lead and everyone moves to the longer chain. There will be 1 chain again eventually after a split. The blocks that were mined on the abandoned chain are called orphan blocks. After the merge back into a single chain it is like the orphans never happened.

Chain fork. This is where Litecoin, BSV, BCH and other shitcoins come from. Because block validation rules are different these can never merge back together.

Knots is not a risk of a chain fork given current stated ideology and programming. It is a risk of a chain split.

Does a split matter? Say a big miner like Foundry, 35% of blocks, and a tiny miner like ocean, 1% of blocks, both hit blocks at the same time and split. Which block will most likely be orphaned? During the split each miner follows the chain they heard about first. Well foundry has a guaranteed 35% of all hash following their block. That means ocean is most likely to get orphaned. An orphaned block means I as an ocean miner don't get paid for my hash.

So I'm incentivized to mine with the big pool because fewer orphan blocks means I get paid more. Downside is now foundry gets even bigger and controls mining even more than their current 35%.

So knots is also worse for miner decentralization in case of a chain split

Yep.

Last time I spelled this all out they showed up to call names after they realized I had the technicals rock solid.

Peter Todd is a fucking statist retard though. They could’ve handled this so much better. Lopp also made a bad decision banning bitcoin mechanic for making a valid point about conflict of interest. Everyone acting like children.

You forgot warmongering. nostr:nprofile1qqsve2jcud7fnjzmchn4gq52wx9agey9uhfukv69dy0v4wpuw4w53nqpzamhxue69uhhyetvv9ujumn0wd68ytnzv9hxgtcuseaka is fucking statist warmongering retard.

Lopp claims he doesn't have admin and someone else banned Mechanic. His words to me when I put him on the spot about it.

Agree completely about bad behavior all around. If you let feelings about the people or their behavior make your decision here you'd end up shutting off your node and selling your stack. Core steam were needlessly antagonistic by removing the setting. If they had left the setting and changed the default none of the controversy happens. Then both sides ran around calling names instead of talking about the technical details.

Orphaned blocks are rare now, a few per year. This scenario is so improbable it’s a non issue.

Rare now, but we’ve never had different nodes running different filtering rules

Won’t make a difference. Has nothing to do with it.