I do think it's a bit of a cop out to reject Christian theism because people who profess it are sinners. That's the whole point: we're all sinners in need of a saviour. If somone says he's never sinned, he's quite simply lying to himself. Jesus said the standard is perfection: "be perfect as my father in heaven is perfect." Paul reaffirmed it: "whoever is guilty in one point of the law is guilty of all of it."

Just because we have been justified by grace through faith does not mean we are suddenly perfect in practice (sanctified). We still sin. The gospel isn't "love God and love your neighbor"--that's the summary of the very law that *none* of us can keep. The gospel (good news) is that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners , and he did so by perfectly obeying the law even unto death. What we deserved was put on him and what he deserved is given to us. It's the "glorious exhange," the free gift of eternal life, granted to all who simply extend the hand of faith and say "yes! I want that! Dear God, thank you for saving a wretch like me!"

We deceive ourselves to think we're on solid ground if we've ever lied, stolen, lusted, hated, badmouthed, coveted, not glorified God for the good in our lives. It's all or nothing. There is no curve, there are no scales of "well, I did generally more good than bad," etc. Perfection.

And that's only available as a gift that comes from believing in Christ.

"I am the way, the truth, and life; no one comes to the father except through me."

Christians aren't perfect. Christ is perfect. That's why our hope is in him and not in our own perfection.

I'm choosing to opt out more than rejecting. I get what he taught. I feel that I can live my best life without a preacher telling me I'm going to hell if I don't tell him all of my darkest secrets. Man is man is man. We are ALL imperfect and will never be perfect until after we have exited the mortal coil, to borrow from Christianity. I, personally, don't know if I believe there is anything beyond where we are. That is not to say that I'm going to go around raping and killing and hating my fellow humans. I respect others. I respect your ability to choose what you believe. I appreciate it when I am given the same regard.

This conversation will not likely sway me but I do thank you all for not becoming rabid bible thumpers.

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Only on Nostr can such a discussion take place and not devolve into insults and name calling. Thanks for taking part in this.

Oh absolutely. I always enjoy discourse sans vitriol but I live in the south so that's hard to come by, especially with a topic like this. Lol.