How much alcohol have you had today and/or how much crack have you smoked? Please be honest.
Discussion
#[3] you know that Nostr doesn’t have a hard character limit for posts. Any chance you can clarify your position? Relays aren’t charging sats by the character yet.
It is centralized
The routing? I understand a there are giant nodes with lots of liquidity acting has big hubs but I don’t think they are gate keepers.
The custodial wallets? Doesn’t make lightning centralized since you can just self custody on your own lighting node.
The development? Not knowledgeable enough about that but I know that there are several implementations
Overall there are trade offs you make with instant payments. It’s basically a multisig where you and your channel partner are keeping a bar tab what’s spent and protecting from bad faith actions.
Again none of the relays we are on charge by the word. I am open to be totally wrong on this. Enlighten us!
The only "good" argument here for centralization is that 52% of nodes run on either Google Cloud or AWS. That's not good. We make fun of Ethereum for these statistics. But we also don't have to use those large routing nodes either. You can open channels to whomever you want to do business with.
Sorry. It's 52% of the capacity is on Google Cloud or AWS. Only 17% of nodes actually run on those platforms.
You know that was the thing I forgot to add in and it popped in and out of my head as I was writing my post.
Yes the cloud hosting is a problem.
I think a lot of people don’t want hardware failure to be responsible for them losing funds or internet down preventing making a payment. Poor excuses with proper backups etc.
thats a dumb argument though. Who cares if a lot of routing is on cloud providers?
Not when LND desynced from bitcoind lmao
Then use Core Lightning LMAO.
What happens when there is a bug in Core lightning? No thank you
Listen in bleed orange and will always stick by on chain but please read the below. This is old news but Bitcoin was new and went through its shit too.
A few weeks ago all LND users were unable to close their channels unless they updated their node. They were FORCED to update their nodes to close channels. Someone is always in charge of a lightning network
What is the name of the person in charge?
Billy.
Are you confusing LND with Lightning? There are other implementations - such as Core LN and Eclair.
Going to break the 4th wall right now and saw that this silly disagreement is much more satisfying to have and engage in than anything I’ve dealt with on Twitter.
Unpausing!
And they are all centralized like LND
Wait... Read that to yourself, slowly.
ALL LIGHTNING IMPLEMENTATIONS ARE CENTRALIZED. Just wait. Your CBDC will be on a network similar to lightning
LOL. My dude. Again, read what you are saying, but read it slowly.
You've said twice now *all* and *centralized* in the same sentence. How can Lighting be centralized if there's an *all*?
I do thank you for looking out for me though. I won't be using a CBDC. <3
Lol if everyone in the world has their own centralized implementation all to themselves why even open channels? You are basically just using L1 twice for the same tx. Can you open a channel by going through multiple centralized implementations?
Since lighting uses Bitcoin are you saying Bitcoin will be our CBDC? That’s cool.
Lol maybe bitcoin. More likely just a digital dollar on an implementation like LND. Banks can open channels with each other and create their own wallets. Thats why they like Jack Mallers
Hal Finney did say that one day banks would do exactly this. 👀
It is inevitable. The only salvation is L1
“Like LND”.
I’m going to move my goal posts and say that’s not lightning.
Lmao name any implementation. They are all controlled by someone. And if everyone had 1 of their own they would be better off on L1
I don’t know what’s being argued here.
Are you saying because each lighting implementation has a team behind it that it’s centralized?
Lightning isn’t some shitty L1 Bitcoin clone. It’s not it’s own coin. It’s not the same thing. No one is rug pulling my Bitcoin on lighting. I am free to pull my funds on chain.
You understand that the underlying reason why any of this works is a multisig on-chain.
Not if you were a LND user lmao
LND is open source like the other LN implementations, you can fork it if you don't like updates made by the devs
And how would you open channels with other people?
lncli openchannel --node_key=X --local_amt=X
Which lightning implementation is that for?
The one i forked in 2028 to broadcast porn on the gossip layer
So if you forked it how can you open channels with someone on a completely different fork?
Cross compatibility
That would mean to stay decentralized everyone would need to be cross compatible with each other. Everyone would need to constantly be updating their nodes to be more compatible. That is a lot of down time and a lot of centralization. Too many rules. There is also deflation to consider. Those that choose to spend #bitcoin will always be over paying in the long run. Technology will be so advanced in the next few decades the need to spend bitcoin collapses. People will be self sustaining with robotic farms, renewable energy, self driving taxis, drones, etc.
👀
Right. I run LND. I was required to update my software because of a software bug. That's how software works. If a vulnerability or bug is found, it needs patched. Why in the world would you want to run software that is vulnerable or buggy if a fix has been deployed? No one wants to do that. Security and stability is paramount. Always has been.
I never have to update bitcoin core again to have access to my funds. HFSP
I hope you understand that most of us have cold storage. I don’t put my life savings in my checking account and don’t leave a majority of my Bitcoin savings on what is essentially a hot wallet.
Lighting has its uses and on-chain is my savings vault.
What’s wrong with that?
Was it all nodes though or those running lnd? Wasn’t that because btcd library had a bug in it?
Did it affect eclair or c-lighting?
I mean I get what you’re saying as you’re pretty much forced to upgrade or patch yourself.
Doesn’t seem like a flaw of the network more than software decisions. 🤷♂️
How do you interact with the network? A centralized tool that someone controls. They make the rules. Whatever rules they want. What happens when the update includes a 60% tax?
Dude the spec is documented. It’s just multisig with protocol specs to keep both parties honest.
It’s not perfect but if lnd tries to do a 60% tax then I’m going to tell it to fuck off and use another implementation.
Right? If LND does something bad, go to CLN. If CLN does something bad, go to Elcair. If Eclair does something bad, go to LDK. If LDK does something bad, then move to whatever the community has developed to save us all from bad actors.
Pick your poison right? Fuck that. Only the mindless slaves will use LN
That is the same argument shitcoiners make
Different lighting implementations aren’t different coins. I fail to see your point.
I laughed. 
Nada enchilada