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So yesterday I choose chocolate ice cream, as that is what I liked best, but today my favourite flavor is strawberry, so I choose that. Which one was the better choice?

Curtis 2y ago

I don't think we can know with 100% certainty. However, that doesn't mean that a correct answer doesn't exist.

This is why we can look back on our decisions and say "that was a good deal" or "I should've done something better" etc...

Ice cream flavor is a pretty trivial and inconsequential thing to analyze, which is why we don't care to do it. There are more consequential examples we could use, such as cigarettes or bioweapons. Is it actually worth giving up money for cigarettes, or for bioweapons? I'm sure it depends on context, but I do think there are right and wrong answers to that question.

I certainly think that the economy is better off when individuals come to these realizations by themselves, instead of having a central authority dictate them to the masses.

But still, that just means that decentralized economic systems are better than centralized economic systems. It doesn't mean that value itself is inherently subjective.

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6e70253f... 2y ago

So you are saying even thou today I prefer strawberry ice-cream over chocolate, that my choice in that moment could be 'wrong'? Wrong in what way?

It may seem trivial, but I'm nearly sure we could still disagree on something as simple as this. Btw, my choice of flavoured ice-cream is not inconsequential. This will have an impact on my quality of life, the ice-cream vendor, and other customers.

Curtis 2y ago

Essentially, yes, but it's not my place to tell you or anyone which flavour you should have picked. I believe you are in the best position to determine what you should pick, but there's a big difference between "best" and "perfect."

As for "what way" in which it might be wrong, I do not know. I don't think I understand the question.

As for triviality, perhaps you're right. Maybe your choice of ice cream flavour will have cascading consequences that end up causing WW3 or something. We can't really know for sure.

If I were to accept that the value of ice cream flavours is subjective, then I would have to somehow conceptually make ice cream flavour distinct from other things people can value (that aren't subjective). I don't think that sort of conceptualization exists, and I haven't been able to generate one.

Curtis 2y ago

We could play with examples in parallel. One is the ice cream example, perhaps another could be the following:

A Nigerian prince emails you. He promises that if you help him move his multi-million dollar fortune out of Nigeria by sending a certain sum of money by wire-transfer, he will share part of the fortune with you.

You assess the situation and decide to express value by sending the money. Then, the prince vanishes without a trace.

Was that expression of value wrong?

I suggest that it was at least less-than-ideal, or not 100% correct. In fact, I would say you've been scammed.

The alternative is to say that there's no such thing as a "better" or "worse" decision in this situation.

6e70253f... 2y ago

No. This is similar to the desert example. If we had known there was an oasis over the hill, we would've valued our only water bottle differently. Just like if we knew the prince was a fraud, we would've valued our money differently.

As you see there are two distinct examples I'm going with:

1. A change in information about the external world

2. A change in our wants/needs/desires

Your Nigerian price example is more of the type 1 example.

Curtis 2y ago

Yes, I agree that there Nigerian prince falls under the first category. I would just phrase it differently to better reflect what's actually going on (in my view).

Better information can help us make better evaluations and therefore, better decisions. This includes economic decisions.

6e70253f... 2y ago

What is the purpose behind seeing a particular action as wrong? I ask this question as I think within Subjective Value Theory, all actions are seen as rational, in the sense that the action at that particular time was based on the only available information. Having some type of moral judgement on that doesn't play a part.

The intent here is a theory that can describe the actions of humans and how each persons actions fit together in the whole. Naval gazing at what could've been (e.g. that I knew the price was a scammer) does not help us get there.

Curtis 2y ago

The reason I've come to this conclusion is because without first accepting (implicitly or explicitly) the existence of objective value, nothing else can possibly make sense. No theories, observations, descriptions of the world... Nothing.

The acceptance of the existence of objective value can also explain the question you just asked.

You asked me "what's the point?" You used the word purpose, and you specifically asked about the purpose of viewing something as "wrong."

Asking for the point is to presume that there can in fact be "a point."

If value were purely subjective, there couldn't be a meaningful point to anything. Yes, all valuations are subjective, but those valuations come in degrees of quality. In economics, the market judges that quality though a quasi-evolutionary process (when it's working correctly, but under subjective value theory there is no such thing as "working correctly").

6e70253f... 2y ago

Read my note on subjective/objective definitions. I think this is where the confusion is arriving from. Subjective as in individual context dependent, not biased view of reality subjective.

6e70253f... 2y ago

Btw, I'm finding it really difficult following this conversation in Nostr. My client, #Amethyst is not really displaying it well.

Curtis 2y ago

Yeah, one of these days I hope we'll have a better client for philosophical discussions. 🤞