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look how easy it is to trick bitcoin maxis into using altcoins. all you have to do is lie and say liquid and ecash are bitcoin and they instantly believe it. how are they this fucking stupid??

ABH3PO 5mo ago

Paper Bitcoin is going to exist wether you like it or not and it's not going to be the real thing, and you're going to get rugged with it, the whole point is what advantages are you getting by using paper Bitcoin, and wether they are worth the risk of the rug, I think liquid, ecash are worth the risk, lightning is worth to the point of being essential, ETFs though are stupid, you literally gain nothing, just a false sense of Bitcoin exposure you can just have with your own keys.

They just don't want the responsibility of managing their keys, and are willing to trust, and they gain nothing more than this, and will be rugged.

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Discussion

goatmeal 5mo ago

>I think liquid, ecash are worth the risk

obstructionist incantations. we have people all over the place like vermin insisting to completely ossify the network because "hey, liquid and ecash are here, that's all the masses will ever need," and "MY channel only cost me tree fiddy and I have a bachelor's degree in burning my eyes out in front of a computer for 17 hours a day, so everyone should use lightning."

I don't fall into the trap of assessing the risks of these garbage protocols in the context of what the current network consensus allows us to have. this is why I advocate for the death of ossification proponents. I'm also lumping them in with liquid and ecash cheerleaders. they're all accomplishing the same thing.

ABH3PO 5mo ago

Ossification is stupid, and I agree we should actively argue against it.

But we don't know if we'll be able to achieve everything we want on the base layer without making horrible tradeoffs. Until we can do that, these solutions provide "good enough" mechanisms to help us live our lives.

ᴛʜᴇ ᴅᴇᴀᴛʜ ᴏꜰ ᴍʟᴇᴋᴜ 5mo ago

ossification is the thing that progressives like to insult those who understand that a thing that works doesn't need changing

in software engineering, there is a small number of really smart guys who know this, and that's why i can still compile and run code for Golang written back in 2010. no other programming language can do that.

is golang ossified? no, they just refused to make changes that break this promise of compatibility, and add only cosmetic and aesthetic benefits that don't improve engineering.

same principle should be applied to all software projects. the temptation of progression needing to feel like it's always happening is a folly of youth.

considering that due to other mischief being perpetuated over the centuries to their obsession with population control, the people of middle age and over are becoming the democratic majority.

the younger generations will ultimately be forced to learn why us old farts think this way, because they can't dominate us anymore with democracy.

payback is a bitch.

goatmeal 5mo ago

bitcoin already made the horrible tradeoffs. the current set of consensus rules don't deliver scalable self-custody. all the tricks to get around it like lightning and clark are unnecessarily complex and have horrible UX problems. the fee market has collapsed. every time it temporarily un-collapses itself it just pushes people into custodians and altcoins and goes right back to being collapsed. paper bitcoin and shit like solana have become the dominant way for people to interact with cryptocurrency. NGU pays people to shut up and not care. you're in the bad ending right now.

ABH3PO 5mo ago

Okay, I was with you till now, but I've completely lost you now.