Nostr Web Client

Send me your main BTC addresses, if you are so confident.

Han can send you their XMR address, and you won't know shit.

How can you fail to see the power differential ?

All your lightning support infra can be compromised through poor security practices, or damaged in a local event. So now you have to have redundant offsite systems that also require trust in third parties, just to guard against downtime.

All this is default in Monero. So Monerans are more efficient users than Bitcoin and Lightning users, their time does not need to be spent of troubleshooting, maintenance or updates of all the various systems just to have a worst version of privacy that can have operational channel issues and routing failures, or be custodied as with the most popular lightning clients.

Monerans can focus on building important problems, services and businesses in private while Bitcoiners are wasting countless man hours on problems it solved and deployed years ago.

Bitcoin Carlin 1y ago

First off thank you for actually addressing some key issues instead of being a blind shill. For the record I’ve never said Monero has zero value. I think it’s the only alt coin that has any value at all. That said it’s cringe that Monero people are acting as if bitcoin and lighting are not adapting or moving forward at all. Are you aware of Bolt12? If so: What are its implications?

Lightning solves half the problem of privacy with superb sender privacy. Full stop. Monero shills refuse to accept this. Now let me address your criticism:

>all your lightning infra can be compromised

Isn’t that the case for all computer systems? You don’t think that can happen with your Monero node/wallet? I’ve taken every precaution I know of. I stay NKYC I fly below the radar and I use dedicated hardware with open source code I audited from people I know IRL and verified the checksum. I’ve recovered my node multiple times with no hiccups. If I get owned by alphabet people I get owned lol. The same goes for you on Monero.

>the anon set isn’t big enough

This wasn’t yours but this was someone else’s criticism. I promise the anon set on lightning is at least as good if not better than monero’s and that will intensify with the upcoming bullrun.

My position the entire time hasn’t been bitcoin is more private than Monero today. It consciously made other trade offs that make it a superior money. There are developments happening today that are moving privacy forward and it’s foolish to just ignore those. That’s why I think Monero will eventually go to zero against bitcoin.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

ede3d957... 1y ago

We are not maximalists. We are celebrating every development that leads to better privacy plike Bolt12. In the end its also better for Monero if Bitcoin upgrades its privacy.

But we believe that 99% of people need privacy out of the box or it will fail. It's great that the Bitcoin cypherpunk after putting 100s of hours of research into their OpSec can handle BTC privately. But 99% will never reach that point. So anything that is not protocol level privacy will have to be added by projects in top of which at least some have the interest or are forced to by governments to collect data.

See. Most Monero people are early Bitcoiners. It's our roots so we have mad respect of what has been achieved. But at the same time we concluded that Bitcoin lacks in some aspects.

But as free markets are a great way to hedge there is no problem. I can hold both and gain the upsides of each coin without having to live with the downsides. "Trade offs" they call it not without reason.

The maxi position is anti hedging and doesn't acknowledge trade offs. In that sense I am neither a BTC nor a XMR maxi. I value freedkm, the cypherpunk ethos and I will fight for better tools. Calling out weaknesses as I am not intending to sacrifice my friends and family. So I tell them about perceived weaknesses in BTC and XMR.

Bitcoin Carlin 1y ago

Fair enough. As I’ve stated I respect Monero but at the same time I believe that bitcoin will over time improve. Monero made a trade off of privacy for transparency which I respect but ultimately casts doubt on its usefulness as a store of value. I suspect it will play out that lightning will cannibalize Monero over time. Either way I wish you success and luck as we collectively build toward a better future free of parasites.

Cheers

Bitcoin Carlin

ede3d957... 1y ago

Sounds very much like common ground. With some personal preferences and slightly differing market hypothesis.

I always like to say. You know, you can own both? So none really needs to go broke if only one project makes it but not the other.