Replying to Avatar BottleTeams

You're bulking because you're body is literally starving for fuel if you don't feed it. You're not eating just to eat, you're hungry all the time while you're anabolic.
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Bill Cypher 5mo ago

I think this is like the "does a tree falling in the woods with no one to hear it make a sound" argument. It is all in how you define the words and in this case who you are giving the advice to.

I have some spare fat due to some medical issues that caused me to gain a bunch of weight. I fast regularly so my body is perfectly capable of burning fat for fuel (despite claims in here that anyone who can do that is already skinny) that means I'm always in a calorie surplus no matter what I do or don't eat.

There are macro and micro nutrient needs that have to be met, protein and specifically leucine for example. Beyond that, I don't need to eat more than maintenance calories to gain muscle.

Maybe someone well under 15% body fat will have an issue gaining muscle without gaining weight but I don't. I may be fat by gym bro standards but I'm pretty fit by national average standards.

Is a competition body builder sub 10% fat going to need to gain some fat to gain more muscle for next season? Yes. Does a 20% fat guy who is trying to get in better shape have the same issue? No.

Sub 10% fat is harmful metabolically just as true as being 40% fat is bad for you. Both those metabolic harms will slow muscle gain. For an average dude depending on genetics you probably want to walk around in the 15% ish range for optimal health.

The right answer to all of this depends on the person. If you are a dude >20%bf taking a mass gainer you are hurting yourself. If you're a dude <10%bf trying to lose fat and gain muscle at the same time you are hurting yourself.

Women naturally have higher bf% but the same concepts apply with different numbers.

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BottleTeams 5mo ago

Calorie surplus has nothing to do with your current body fat or weight it's how much you ingest daily. By definition you are in a calorie deficit by fasting, this is why you are burning fat.

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Bill Cypher 5mo ago

My point is that calorie deficit / surplus focuses on part of the energy system while ignoring part of it. Energy deficit or surplus is a much better way to look at it. I have no shortage of available energy due to my spare tire.

In the past I have pushed to my limits and my metabolism changed once my BF% got low enough. I got cold and tired and slow, all things that any honest pro body builder will tell you happens in a cut. Energy deficit causes that. These days I can do 36 hours fasting regularly no problem without those changes to my basal metabolic rate because I am not at an energy deficit. Hopefully that will change in time as I make progress on the health issue that made me fat in the first place.

I'm currently gaining muscle and losing fat just like many here say is impossible. It only takes N1 to invalidate that claim unlike my depends on the person claim.

The reason they are wrong is because they don't understand that eating is only part of the energy equation. I'm at energy surplus so I can gain muscle.

This is important to me because it is a key piece of misinformation that is spread often that really makes it harder for people like me who need to lower their BF%. Your way makes it impossible for someone in my situation to get healthier. I know because I tried it. My way gives us a path to get back on track, though admittedly a difficult one.

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BottleTeams 5mo ago

Correct you need energy surplus -calories- (your terms) to build muscle. You cannot build muscle in an energy (caloric) deficit. As has been spewed by these folks previously. Best of luck on your fitness journey 🤙

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Bill Cypher 5mo ago

Many here are saying you need to eat a surplus, which isn't true for most people.

Also, I don't think you need to eat enough to gain fat.

Building muscle takes more calories than keeping the same amount which takes more than losing.

If you lift hard, you'll need extra calories to heal that you don't need to stay the same. You can even measure the amount as the after burn effect. You could in theory measure the increased calorie needs after an injury.

If your body is using those calories to improve itself is it really a surplus? If some are turning into fat for sure that is a surplus.

I'm fairly confident that the idea of metabolic rate being fixed is BS. Your body can turn up or turn down the burn. Any 3 or 4 day fast will make you cold because it turned the fire down. If you gained fat you were maxed out and still had too much or the wrong food or some kind of metabolic syndrome.

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BottleTeams 5mo ago

You have a baseline amount of calories to sustain your current body composition. As you grow larger that baseline amount goes higher. If I was 200lb last year and I'm 210kb this year I have more muscle that require more calories to maintain them.

Again I answered all these things with nostr:npub1ghcetnluhryhynhuyj8s2pazldjm27wl40nu6dfeskvpv09twcnsneygat and nostr:npub1an6xs9jt6apmw45rmvu8pnspewdp6juwcgp76fk72ruky4dmcadqwfze63 questions. You will have to re find them. They had alot of the same misunderstandings as it sounds like you have.