Nostr Web Client

There's a lot of posts on Nostr, X and other SoMe that might make people believe they don't have to fight, saying that "we're winning" and arguing that all it takes is to "keep calm and stack sats." This is a dangerous narrative. Don't fool yourself. History demonstrates that we must fight.

#RebelUp

makrokoppen 1y ago

Depends on what fighting and rebellion is.

Yea, actively participating and fighting the ancien regime is good and noble.

However, exiting fiat and turning your back on whilst refusing to participate less than absolutely necessary (we do still coexist in the same meatspace) can be equally valuable. A silent fight.

The old regime though, feeds on fighting and conflict. Those in power might actually become more frustrated with people rejecting them, by simply saying “no thank you, I will not comply” than people acknowledging, legitimating and participating in their fiat conflict.

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Discussion

Rune Østgård 1y ago

It's not enough. I don't say people should use violence. There are many ways to fight. Sitting alone, never raising the voice but stacking sats, that simply isn't good enough. It's a freerider problem. IMO

makrokoppen 1y ago

Idk.

Sitting alone, never raising your voice, but putting all the fiat you earn into #bitcoin while running a node and leading a happy life does not seem like freeriding. It seems like a perfect case of adoption.

Your statement reminds me of coders saying, if you don’t code, but just raising your voice without supporting us, you’re freeriding.

Or what about those guys who has a bank loan/mortgage for a house while speaking up, are they convinced enough? What good does it to talk if you don’t walk the walk?

IMO, I think we need everybody. Fighters, lobbyists, silent stackers. Nobody does “enough” but everybody are necessary one way or the other.

Rune Østgård 1y ago

I don't agree with the developers you refer to.

But IMO those who do nothing else but stacking sats are freeriders, and those who believe everything will automatically heal itself are wrong.

Again - this is my opinion. And I wouldn't voice it if I thought everyone agreed with me.

makrokoppen 1y ago

Yeah I understood that.

But I think you are wrong too and I don’t agree with you, nor need you to agree with me.

I just think people are free to participate in any way they want to. And that freeriding on those speaking out vs those who do not is a very narrow and specific construct. We need both actions and speech. Withdraw all the money from the bank, reject a mortgage AND speak. Only speaking without acting does not suffice either, after your logic. Such people are freeriding on those who are committed with their financial assets but keeping their mouth shut.

Starve the fiat system of its resources. This is equally, if not more important than speaking up while having bank deposits.

After all. Bitcoin is money. Save it, use it, fight for it, stack it. Scream it from the mountaintops. Become a believer. Or don’t.

I also do not think “those” you refer to believing everything will heal itself coincides with silent stackers. Maybe they just don’t give a fuck and focuses on the one thing they can control, which is themselves.

Rune Østgård 1y ago

I'm glad we can discuss this.

I never cared about having the same opinions as others.

I'm a bitcoiner, but feel just OK with disagreeing with other bitcoiners.

This discussion is necessary.

And IMO everyone can do more than just stacking.

makrokoppen 1y ago

Totally, everything should be open for discussion!

Everybody “can” always do more in all respects. However it depends on their skills and abilities, convictions and priorities.

The most important imo is to do what your comfy with and can do without pretending!

Rune Østgård 1y ago

And I expect more from people - much more than what they are comfortable with. This will be my message in talks this spring and summer. If we shall learn from the history of monetary policy, everyone must contribute, and fight for and with each other, otherwise the cost is too high for those who try.

makrokoppen 1y ago

Well, comfy was maybe not concise enough.

For many people it is enough to raise healthy kids, grind the fiat grind, stack sats and maybe break even. There aren’t enough hours in the day for “more” of what you expect.

Fighting a fight on top of that is not always realistic. That is the fight.

For many the day doesn’t have enough hours to do more. For the privileged, yeah, fight the system, go ahead - in some jurisdictions you can. Would you for example revolt against the Taliban in Afghanistan, is it enough for women there to hold sats and conceal them, or must they fight as well?

Further some don’t even accept the current system. They opted out, turned their backs. Never to return. Voted with their feet and monetary energy. Their actions are their voices.

I think the sly roundabout way is to live freely and free from other peoples expectations, regardless of whether you choose to fight in your sense or not.

Just as silent stackers should not expect anybody else to fight for them, fighters should not expect anybody to fight with them, even though they are free to persuade people to get in the trenches with them. What it boils down to: You fight if it is worth it to you, period. If you fight because other people expects you to, you have subjugated to them and their expectations.

What you are proposing sounds like a tax on other peoples time and resources.

Rune Østgård 1y ago

Fair points, and you are quite correct, me saying that people who let others do the fighting are freeriders, imply that I say they have a moral obligation regardless if they are motivated or not. That's 100% my position. No legal obligation, just a moral obligation. And of course I won't argue that people should do impossible things or risk their lives. But most people, at least here in the West, aren't in such a difficult position. Pls also note that I don't demand much - everything helps, and I just don't think stacking sats is enough.

Rune Østgård 1y ago

For instance, look at the farmers' revolt in Europe. What would they say to a bitcoiner who argued that "stacking sats is enough, nothing more can be expected from me"?

makrokoppen 1y ago

idk what they would say? would they expect somebody to work for free?

most people join the fight when it is worth it to them

just as you discover bitcoin and take a leap when it is necessary/worth it to you

these things however occur at different times for different people

Rune Østgård 1y ago

Fighting for freedom isn't "working for free."

It's a foundational obligation, if you don't fight, you will in the end lose it all.

makrokoppen 1y ago

and maybe you are okay with that if that is the path you have chosen

or maybe you will fight, but not until somebody has pinched your nose

idk

bringing it back:

i do not think stackers are freeriders

they are using and open protocol however they see fit

it might fail if they dont do more than stscking, it might not, it might also fail if they do more than stacking

there are no guarantees

nor any free lunches

bitcoin is freedom from coercion and obligations