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Bitcoin is there to protect people's long term savings.

You're asking what do you do if you have no savings to protect or you need them for the uncertainty that's probably coming?

It's a hard one.

I think for many of us as we start to understand what Bitcoin is & where it's going, we get excited. We feel like we don't have enough sats (no matter how many you have i think). We start weighing the cost of many purchases against sats. We start being frugal & not giving 2 shits about what others think of our car or clothes.

I had to spend 3million sats on a water heater recently. I bought it & installed it myself to save the sats. I will always remember the cost of that water heater. I bought it reluctantly & only once I knew it was required.

Essentially you need to create a fiat surplus that you can funnel into satoshis. You get those into your possession so that nobody can take them from you. Then you repeat.

It's hard to describe what that feels like. Money that can't be taken from you.

Even the cash people stash in their house gets robbed of it's value, as it gathers dust.

Ferret 2y ago

Thank you for kind reply

Can’t say im at point where I convert sats to fiat. My lil sat collection of few hundred sats does not have me there yet.

Can relate to not caring what others think. Think the internet, esp all forms of social media, including this one, has sad side effects of making people compare themselves to others on every level, both frustrating & sad. If anything this social media may be one of the greater extremes of competitive media’s use in how sats are used as a tool of value. A statement which may anger some im sure, but how can it not when there are even websites designed to see who is getting Nostr zapped the most, top zapped, top tappies.

Bitcoin can still be taken… I think? Examples including, lose of wallet, lose passwords (dementia & car accident brain injuries triggering loss of memory for those that try remember crazy long passcodes), given potential for future court case precedent to handing over keys to spouse in separation, dog eats my cold storage, and various other means.

You mention spending 3 million on water heater. Did the business accept payment for their product in bitcoin? I ask this cause I don’t know any businesses, at least where I live anyways, that accepts cryptocurrency as payment. Read that El Salvador gave each resident $30 worth bitcoin money in a wallet, but after they spent the money in wallet, less than 1% continued to use the wallet, so to me that says it’s not viable long term.

To circle back to conversation about bitcoin as being a long term savings. Is any money actually “safe” in this day & age? Or are we fooling ourselves & just want it to be so. Cause if I had to guess,… if world goes to shit (perhaps it already has, jury & perception is still out on this), then wouldn’t society more likely adopt “trading” as a most stable form of currency? For most of history humans have bartered for things they wanted/needed. I need food, & you need materials to build a house—so I’ll trade you my cow & I’ll give you my lumbar. Simple trade, & eliminated use of money completely.

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Discussion

Brisket 2y ago

Yeah there are elements of nostr that have carried themselves over from legacy social media & new elements like zapping. I think nostr culture is still evolving as we figure out what this thing can do & what we want it to be. There is also a constant feed of new people trying nostr out that bring their own way of interacting with it. I really like that people can be heard if people want to hear them - there's no algorithms to intercept messages. Nostr was built with the architecture of Bitcoin in mind. Now that it has been created, I don't think it can be stopped.

An individual's bitcoin is essentially protected by a complex secret that's hard to guess (12 or 24 randomly selected words). If I've secured that secret, it's near impossible to extract it from me. Obvious threats are torture/threats/coercion to get me to reveal my secret. At the end of the day, the attacker needs to get the owner to surrender their complex secret. This is a real threat & why many of us do not use our real identities when taking about bitcoin. We believe any amount of bitcoin will become significant with time & we know how that can motivate people.

The hot water heater was paid for by my credit card in fiat. I converted the fiat cost to sats out of interest & because it's what it essentially cost me (the opportunity cost). There are still few places to spend bitcoin here either - most people haven't touched bitcoin yet.

Is any money safe? Great question to ask - it leads on to - what is money?

I think we're at the end stages of a fiat currency experiment. I think all fiat currencies will lose most of their value this decade & that people will look for an alternative way to trade & save. Some will choose gold, silver &/or bitcoin, while others will accept the CBDC replacement. Barter will always occur, but it is terribly inefficient & slow for trading. I think it will occur but that bitcoin will be more preferred & readily accepted for trading.

I would encourage you to look at money through a neutral lens. What are the properties of money & how does bitcoin stack up against them? It's weakest aspect is how old it is (only 14 years) & it's level of acceptance. To me that is just indicative of how early we are on bitcoin. The future is uncertain & there is a chance a better option will be settled upon (I just can't see it though).

People tend to settle on a single form of money & that tends to also be the hardest money to create. For the last 5000 years humans have settled on gold as money, but it has a lot of flaws (transport, storage & verification primarily). Time will tell what happens, but it might just pay to have a little bitcoin in case it catches on.

Ferret 2y ago

Thank you again for great reply!

Awesome! You know your history!

You mentioned something really interesting.. silver & gold.

Do you think that will make a comeback?

Where we start stacking physical sliver & gold coins/bars. Know people that do this very thing, they also preppers & stock food, ammo, that kinda thing… but they educated me value of how physical silver/gold can also be used as barter material. Mind you, keeping full cabinet of grocery rather smart thing to do to, def see value in that, & think its smart to plan ahead (within reason). Esp lost art of home canning with salts & vinegars fruits/veggies we grow ourselves.

Folks I talk to that buy physical silver/gold hoard the material. Almost like a bitcoiner mentality in that it’s form of “money”. And yes agree definition “money” is loaded question. Now I can def get onboard with idea of buying silver/gold, perhaps even other rare earths like platinum. Diamonds, rubies, jewels.. absolutely no. They not rare, they not special, I could care less for hubby to gift me with diamonds 💎, I personally see zero value in them.

So ya, tell me more on your thoughts with silver & gold. Do you think that will be more popular with time? Perhaps on par or better than bitcoin?

Side note. Something that makes me nervous on bitcoin is part where it requires “internet” to function. No internet, no power, = no bitcoin. IF, war was to break out cause Russia decides it wants attack over here, if we lose power, internet, data connection.. bitcoin is absolutely useless technology. Then what? Then the silver & gold folks are prepped & better position then most.

Ferret 2y ago

Also… isn’t it well known that Jack gave large sum bitcoin to Will.. so if what you say is true, about torture to extract bitcoin from people, then should Will be posting his location photos in Costa Rica? Or those large conventions I seen them talking about coming up in CR.. there’s large group bitcoiners all in one place ready to be hijacked and tortured to reveal their bitcoin passwords! Yikes! Just realized this now 🧐