Replying to Avatar Cyph3rp9nk

About coinjoin coordinators.

There is a difference to be made between privacy on-chain and privacy at the network level.

Even if you have chain privacy you can tag the addresses with their respective ips and trace the user. Obviously this can only be done by the coordinator.

This is why Samourai and Whirpool have always sucked.

Whirpool:

- If you used the mobile wallet without your node, the coinjoin was useless because your public keys were exposed to the backend and with them all your past, present and future addresses.

- If you used your own node or sparrow it was also of little use, since both samourai and sparrow reuse the tor circuit, they only generate a new one if you close the application, and therefore the coordinator can tag the incoming and outgoing addresses at the time of registration and ruin the coinjoin. Whirpool has never been zerolink, the coordinator knew everything.

Wabisabi:

- It creates new connections for both input and output addresses, so the coordinator sees distinct identities, although I think it has flaws in its design due to the delay. We can consider it to be zerolink, at least they tried and were honest.

Joinmarket:

- Since there is no centralized coordinator it is much less important to create new tor circuits for each connection, still the coordinator (the taker) will know the ips of the incoming and outgoing addresses. I don't know if they are mitigating this in any way.

Joinstr:

- Use Riseup VPN for logging, everyone uses the same VPN, there is no possibility of tagging inbound and outbound addresses across relays.

Joinstr uses Riseup VPN?

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Discussion

Yes, for everyone, anonymity by crowd, everyone has the same footprint.

It's a smart choice to not have to deal with tor circuit management.

You know I refused … respectfully

So the client has an always-on VPN to RiseUp, when they communicate with the relay? Or does it work differently?

(I should read up on it again. It's been a while..)

Exactly, the client creates a vpn connection to communicate with the relays.

We could say that the relays act as coordinators.

I wonder if it's not possible (and better) to use Keet/holepunch rooms powered by DHT as a more decentralized way for coordination, instead of Nostr relays.

I can't help but be wary that relay operator will be (forces to) censoring joinstr events , of pressured.