Nostr Web Client

Nostr is the Church of Bitcoin. And as a bitcoin unbeliever, I'd like to probe the understandings and beliefs of those who are really into bitcoin.

These false dichotomy questions are meant to spur discussion, of course I don't think anyone can simply choose one over the other, but I wonder what people are thinking.

Which of the following is true:

1. If government went away, the people would be free of the oppression of taxes, all interactions would be voluntary, and anarcho-capitalism can finally bring in a utopia.

2. if government went away, the infrastructure would erode (roads, the internet, power distribution, sewage, etc) and people would be living in fear of violent gangs that would have bloody and terrible battles for power.

Which of the following is true:

1. Bitcoin will grow to the point of being the world currency, at which point government won't have any reliable way to collect taxes and government will shrink away.

2. Bitcoin won't get much larger than it already is today because if it gets much bigger governments will shut it down, seeing it as an existential threat.

I could ask more but I think you get the point.

My belief is that small governments are good and necessary things, and governments will not allow themselves to lose revenue in any significant amount, so bitcoin can't grow much larger unless it embraces KYC (which the Church of Bitcoin clearly doesn't). And therefore IMHO there is no bitcoin endgame other than where we currently are. I believe we are living in an abnormal period of laxity.

I"m about to run off and I won't see the replies to this for hours, so don't expect me to participate in the discussion right away.

BTW: I am libertarian, I believe in free markets, I like power in the hands of the people, I hate the fact that governments are necessary, and I love free speech. But also I think I'm pragmatic and realistic.

Mike Dilger ☑️ 10mo ago

I'm going to make some observations now that I've been thinking about it all day and I've read your responses.

BITCOIN IS A STORE OF VALUE THAT AVOIDS THE SCAM OF PRINTING DOLLARS. There are other stores of value, but bitcoin is one too.

BITCOIN IS GREAT FOR LONG DISTANCE ONLINE PAYMENTS. Probably the best argument for bitcoin I think I've heard. Better than cash since cash loses value from money printing at unpredictable times.

BITCOIN CANNOT BE SHUTDOWN: The people with good operational security cannot be stopped from participating in the bitcoin economy. But the vast majority of people will not and practically cannot have good operational security. And so this may bound bitcoin's growth. If people can come up with easy to use high-op-security systems for the masses (where the govt doesn't even know people bought the device, for example, which IMHO is unlikely but this is theory so...) then that could alleviate such a road block.

GOVERNMENTS HAVE OTHER WAYS OF FUNDING: As for governments taxing income and transactions, it does not have to be like that. Tracking all the finances of everybody, doing accounting, filling out tax forms, this is a massive drain on the economy. If governments found another way to fund themselves, people could become much more productively employed. But of course accountants will fight for their jobs. IMHO government can be funded through a combination of tarrifs, user fees, property taxes, and flat rates (and I'm probably forgetting something). It is certainly a possible endgame that bitcoin is the thing that forces governments to come up with an alternative way to fund themselves. And if that happened, I would be a bitcoin worshiper.

All I'm really sure of is that governments will always be with us.

The world does not have to keep operating like it has. New ways topple the old way all the time. Certain things will always be (human nature, game theory) but specifics can be changed.

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