Ehhh in defense of the speculatorsā¦ Speculators allocate capital to its most productive use based on their independent judgment of future value. Their profit or loss reflects how accurately they assess reality. This risk taking drives innovation and efficiency. Far from exploiters, they are risk absorbers who make economic progress possible.
Discussion
āļø
I guess he means fiateers, which is correct too, since they don't take real risk (of course individuals get rekt in Fiat world as well)
No, the noise of speculation doesnāt make price signals clear. it just distorts.
The argument is if people didnāt speculate, we wouldnāt know prices, is absurd.
Agreed šÆ
Not my argument. Of course we would still know prices lol. Buying and holding bitcoin is speculation btw
I donāt care for nominal games.
call it whatever you want
if your allocating capital into a venture, and the success or failure of that venture is your gain or loss, thatās investing in the venture.
if you are allocating capital into a trade, where your gain or loss is just winning or losing that trade with another, thatās gambling.
all action requires judgment.
horizontal trades just distort, and create no value
vertical investment is signal and produces real value in the world.
economic reality trumps all theory
Nah gambling is rolling dice
making or taking
if taking, then gambling
its the difference between win-win value for value
and win lose extraction
Not following
if you bob and I buy and sell a bunchch of stocks back and forth, we are just redistributing money between us. we are creating no value in the world
thatās categorically distinct from investing capital in a productive venture.
yes, both require āspeculationā in that sense of judgment
itās the principle behind saying āno short seller ever created anythingā
short sellers can win money off others, but create nothing
Iām not arguing that speculators create things
š¤·āāļø his original post was about adding value
i donāt know what your arguing then.
Made my point in my initial response
āspeculators..make economic progress possibleā
ānot arguing speculators create thingsā
whatever meaning you are assigning to these words is incoherent.
trading doesnāt create value
trading distorts true price signals
jor stated that fact without using the word speculator, and you jumped in to defend the speculator. you are having a conversation with yourself it seems.
trading doesnāt create value
iām sorry that offends you, but itās true
Yeah they donāt directly create physical things obviously
or indirectly
thatās what gets lost in the sauce of theory.
but to be fair to the austrians, they didnāt have bitcoin to help make these relations comprehensible.
that doesnāt take away from everything they get right. but its silly to think human beings wonāt have to continue to course correct as we learn more and more