Nostr Web Client

NGL talking about this makes me glad I've retired. Was knee deep in the shit show a very long time.

I'm an embedded systems dev. Firmware cannot crash, especially when it's running an engine or a pacemaker. To design firmware with microservices, performing basic functions over whatever network connection you might have, would be insane.

Separation of concerns is not the same as distribution of concerns. Whenever you add a communication channel, you add a failure point and a delay, a measurable and minimum delay. Maybe that delay is small when you run 1000 microservices on the same machine, but then when it's time to "scale" across the network you increase your latency by orders of magnitude, even when you scale within the same datacenter.

To distribute concerns across the network is a valid design pattern, but it's not like waterfall v.s. agile where you maximize the "best thing" about a process, because the "beat thing" about software is not the network. Networking is a tool that has utility and tradeoffs and it always increases complexity.

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Discussion

Laser 3mo ago 💬 1

The term 'microservices ' implies going ham with little networked backends while pretending like distributing logic in this way has no costs.

Independently developed and deployed backends have a time and place, but it certainly is a costly pattern that should be used as a last resort.

I have yet to see a case at any scale where backend code should not be developed together in a monolithic codebase, even when it is deployed in a distributed architecture for various needs (job processing vs request/reply backends).

Brunswick 3mo ago 💬 1

The notion of microservices is a lazy event pipelining architecture. It's better to just use a RTC microkernel framework inside your application and break out scalable pieces with proxy placeholders or a pub-sub rally point like over zmq or redis.

Laser 3mo ago

Exactly.

Evented production typologies can be achieved without losing the code reuse of developing everything together in the same repo.

You can have thousands of engineers sharing code via functions while also deploying the entire codebase in a myriad of different production modes to execute procedures differently for different purposes.

Just because Kafka consumers need their own persistent process that's seperate from request/response architecture, does t mean those functions need their own source repository and deployment systems, etc.

Reuse everything.

Pixel Survivor 3mo ago 💬 1

seen.

G Force G 3mo ago 💬 2

Micro services seems to be just another instance of Conway's Law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

Some organizations are composed of many many single responsibility teams and so they evangelize that the way to do things is their way.

Laser 3mo ago

I think a lot of what happened is that Google and the like never sufficiently open sourced their monorepo secret sauce, and that led to (dumb) engineers adopting familiar structures, like GitHub orgs with many different repos that they could easily deploy in a 1:1 fashion with cloud tooling.

Fast forward a decade, and the "microservices" monstrosity has become normalized.

aljaz 3mo ago

i think also the huge VC driven hyperscaling moment in software development and creating all these huge companies who were hiring 100s of engineers per month who ran fast and broke things meant that it was easier to make new hires productive is every new team essentially had a green field project vs onboarding to monorepo and getting familiar with everything