Nostr Web Client

Scaling on layer one is awesome. It's the highest degree of security and easiest to use. It should be maximized. Storage is simply the cheapest component of computing. The real limiting factors for node running is processing power (cryptographic validations of FCMP++ transactions will become more difficult) and upload bandwidth (most residential ISPs still offer asymmetric upload speeds which are quite slow.

You can buy like 20tb of HDD space for a few hundred bucks, storage isn't an issue.

nomadshiba⚡ 2d ago

node running should be available to everyone, people don't have to worry about storage.

layer 1 is something global everyone has to sync with 1:1. so keeping layer 1 small is the MOST important thing. it should trump every other idea.

i can't run a full node on my laptop. i have to use my old pc for it, or buy an another hardware. not really normie friendly.

only reason we need a timechain in the first place is preventing double spending. so it should do that, as a final signaling layer, a 10 minute heartbeat verify the order of things. and everything should be built around the constraint that we keep it as small as possible.

computing part is temporary initial hurdle, but you always feel the storage limits. you can't temporarily free your storage. if it bigger than an AAA game, its an issue.

full node target device should be your phone. and yes i agree on that processing also an issue, but its only temporary issue during the initial sync for the most part, bigger issue is the storage limit.

if im installing the bitcoin node on a friend's laptop, i always have to turn on pruning, but with pruning on, its mostly useless. so storage is a bigger issue.

they can download the chain verify it, but can't keep the whole data without buying additional hardware.

not to mention how we don't really have a good all in one software/app yet. that prioritizes normal people running useful full nodes.

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Discussion

Daedalus 2d ago 💬 1

For decentralization you don't want nodes to be up on a laptop you need consistent uptime to contribute properly to the network. Otherwise it's leeching. Same for the NAT environment, laptop nodes are often using public wifi and such away from home which will have incoming connections blocked. An open p2p port on an always on computer is ideal. In that environment, getting large storage is inexpensive and a minor hindrance.

We don't need every light client running a node, just more non malicious IPv4 addresses running nodes than malicious ones. Monero already has a strong culture of node running since you gain network level privacy via Dandelion++ using your own node. With bitcoin you don't gain much since there's no dandelion stem on bitcoind, though its been proposed in the past.

Node running will never be normie friendly unless it's a dedicated pay and play device. In that case storage doesn't matter, once again, since HDD space is cheap. Upload bandwidth and CPU validation isn't cheap though so that's really the danger imo with scaling.

Also Monero isn't designed for nor is trying to be a mass adoption network where everyone's using it for every transaction across the globe. Bitcoin L1 certainly isn't either. Lightning self custodial + decentralized is still DOA with terrible recieving UX and expensive fees for LSP solutions like Zeus and Pheonix. Lightning currently STILL needs to make make custodianship or centralization concessions for UX even remotely comparable to Apple Pay or Venmo.

I think lightning is the best thing to come out of Bitcoin is 10 years though and hope there can be a holy grail solution created so monero can adopt it. It could very well still be possible.

nomadshiba⚡ 2d ago 💬 1

you can become a listening node over tor or i2p easily. you dont necessarily have to open a port on your router. it even works for mobile devices. for example i run a node on my phone. if i didn't have storage issue, i would be able to run it as a full node.

lightning is not the only thing that scsles bitcoin payments.

we need every device to have a hybrid node that starts as light client and downloads data on demand but also slowly becomes a full node in the background.

self custodian lightning can't scale alone, but things like ark, might be interesting.

i think there are places where we can optimize the storage in a bitcoin client, which might make things better.

better ux is important too. install the app and it slowly becomes a listening full node.

i think once we have a good client/node like that adopted, we can add for a new network communication protocol that can work alongside with the legacy raw tpc protocol. it can run on http and websockets. which makes browsers nodes easier to implement as well.

nomadshiba⚡ 2d ago

i should read what i wrote before pressing send. its awful. but still understandable. so meh