Forum logs for 03 Apr 2015
asciilifeform
even if there is a universe full of falsehood. as pointed out, stupidity cuts into equivalence classes.
[00:00]
mircea_popescu
( ) Extreme profitability of spam
[01:24]
PFate
oh, sweet
[01:25]
PFate
but thats the edge of my desk
[01:25]
mircea_popescu
who the fuck stalks dudes
[01:25]
PFate
shitty comcast movies are on the other screen
[01:25]
*
asciilifeform will probably end up having to seppuku one day because did not specify 'do not use in reactors to power interstellar multigenerational flights' in some patch in '14
[01:25]
PFate
i stalk persons of interest in my hobbies to see whats up
[01:25]
PFate
this year and last, crypto
[01:25]
mircea_popescu
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1085180 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079336
[15:23]
asciilifeform
that's roughly 140000 cpu cycles on, e.g., my box, though
[15:23]
cazalla
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1086310 > he's right.
[18:43]
assbot
Logged on 03-04-2015 13:37:28; nubbins`: but he fears others will think it sucks, or worse, that his taste is so poor that it *does* suck and he just doesn't see it
[18:43]
asciilifeform
sometimes, the -process- matters.
[18:43]
trinque
ok, I am aware of your perspective
[18:43]
asciilifeform
because the -process- provides guarantees of...
[18:43]
asciilifeform
!s provenance
[18:43]
assbot
26 results for 'provenance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=provenance
[18:43]
trinque
you can easily verify the output of git
[18:44]
mircea_popescu
nobody's collaborating on anything man > debug.log between each restart
[23:28]
decimation
junseth: " But anyway, if you look at that case, if you look at other cases, I think the pattern is pretty clear that the least restricted systems are the ones that performed best from the point of view of the average user of money. And those were systems that were on gold or silver standards. And there doesn't seem to have been any great dissatisfaction with that. There were proposals by some economists to try to have a system that
[23:28]
decimation
was even more stable in purchasing power. But in retrospect, the variations in the purchasing power of the dollar under the classical gold standard were trivial compared to what it's been under the post-gold-standard period, the fiat dollar standard. "
[23:28]
decimation
http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/03/lawrence_h_whit.html
[23:28]
assbot
" + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/19QrLDS )
[23:28]
danielpbarron
junseth, bitcoin is better money because of its decentralized nature
[23:29]
mats
oh thank god there's a transcript
[23:30]
decimation
mats: yeah it's a good episode, I recommend it
[23:30]
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KatelynTaylor (~KatelynTa@c-73-218-118-55.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets
[23:30]
junseth
Do you think that Bitocin would be better if it were backed by gold or silver?
[23:30]
danielpbarron
such a thing makes no sense
[23:31]
BingoBoingo
!up KatelynTaylor
[23:31]
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assbot gives voice to KatelynTaylor
[23:31]
mats
what would that even entail?
[23:31]
KatelynTaylor
whats better AMD or Intel?
[23:31]
KatelynTaylor
what can run bitcoin better?
[23:31]
asciilifeform
!down meowmix
[23:31]
decimation
^ the above is lifted out of a section where dr. white was talking about how the scotish banking system was crushed by bank of england fiat banking
[23:31]
asciilifeform
!down KatelynTaylor
[23:31]
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[23:31]
asciilifeform
dearphuq.
[23:31]
BingoBoingo
!down KatelynTaylor meowmix
[23:31]
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[23:31]
mats
market maker offers exchange for metallics?
[23:31]
junseth
danielbparron, Well, I would say that electronic, non-government controlled money is better money. Bitcoin's decentralization lets us take advantage of those better features. Previous attempts at using what we all agreed would have been better were shutdown because they were centralized.
[23:32]
asciilifeform
'Sometimes it is a comfort to me to think that the aeroplane is altering the conditions of war. Perhaps when the next great war comes we may see that sight unprecedented in all history, a jingo with a bullet-hole in him.' -- orwell. but i'd ask for 'an economist starved to death'
[23:32]
danielpbarron
junseth, bitcoin is inherently valuable; it needs nothing else to back it
[23:32]
trinque
!s gold
[23:32]
assbot
1853 results for 'gold' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gold
[23:32]
danielpbarron
i like gold; i'd hapily accept gold coins in some sort of local economy
[23:33]
junseth
I agree backing bitcoin with metal doesn't make sense. But there are so many scams that are showing up these days that are taking advantage of the sentiment that a gold/silver backed crypto would be better.
[23:33]
junseth
RE: Bitcoin's inherent value, I agree.
[23:33]
danielpbarron
but i'd keep my savings in bitcoin, using it to replentish my gold coins on a monthly basis or something
[23:33]
nubbins`
sort of like how a car with a built-in stove would be better
[23:34]
asciilifeform
junseth: there are also many scams which promise to run your car on water. for some reason their existence doesn't bother folks who aren't drooling idiots.
[23:34]
punkman
car-stove sounds good
[23:34]
asciilifeform
how many nerve cells does it take to understand that a random net derp cannot back X with Y, for any value of x or y
[23:34]
decimation
junseth: the kinds of folks who would 'fall' for those scams are generally not the kind who are going to matter in bitcoin over the long term
[23:34]
junseth
hahaha, absolutely true.
[23:34]
asciilifeform
nor would he, if could
[23:34]
decimation
bitcoin is a fiat currency, but is also radically decentralized
[23:35]
decimation
but its foundation of trust lies fully in its protocol and specification
[23:35]
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[23:36]
decimation
which is why the work of the foundation is so important
[23:36]
asciilifeform
!up junseth
[23:36]
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[23:36]
junseth
:) Haha. I agree with all of that.
[23:36]
junseth
I would be willing to bet a lot of money that we agree on almost everything Bitcoin ,an dprobably disagree a lot about how markets work.
[23:37]
asciilifeform
junseth: do you believe that it is appropriate to use the word 'market' to describe a system where the crown is the single largest economic actor ?
[23:37]
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[23:38]
junseth
Hmm... well, I would say that ther eis probably no such thing as a unregulated market. But any place that exists wher epeople transact is a market.
[23:39]
asciilifeform
junseth: how about a puppet show where kermit the frog 'buys' a bag of 'fuzzies' from miss piggy ?
[23:40]
asciilifeform
is that also a 'market' ?
[23:40]
asciilifeform
if not, why not ?
[23:40]
trinque
nothing in *life* is unregulated but this is distinct from saying *all* regulations come from *one* place
[23:40]
junseth
haha, a market of two people is a market.
[23:41]
junseth
a market of two things is a market
[23:41]
junseth
Haha, I would probably apply the supreme court porn test to whether somethign is a market or not
[23:42]
asciilifeform
how about n people and one demented omnipotent monster who can eat them at will.
[23:42]
trinque
so the word means nothing
[23:42]
trinque
junseth: are two male chimps in a cage a viable ecosystem?
[23:45]
junseth
Haha, well a market is a place where individuals come and transact. That's what it means. What does it look like? I mean, it can look like a lot of things. But a marketplace doesn't have to look like any one thing.
[23:45]
junseth
Hahaha. Are they intelligent enough to make trades and transact?
[23:45]
asciilifeform
words have -meanings.'
[23:45]
trinque
didn't say transact
[23:45]
trinque
junseth: I am drawing a parallel between functioning natural ecosystems and functioning markets
[23:46]
decimation
asciilifeform: ok let's say you employ buildroot. which kernel? which gcc/glib?
[23:46]
asciilifeform
decimation: 'easy' - the ones that -work-.
[23:46]
decimation
heh
[23:46]
asciilifeform
the kernel, for what it's worth, is not a sticking point.
[23:47]
decimation
I would suggest a redhat-patched gcc actually
[23:48]
asciilifeform
ick
[23:48]
asciilifeform
why
[23:48]
decimation
well, they follow exactly the method you advocate
[23:48]
asciilifeform
what method would that be
[23:48]
decimation
if you look at the contents of a src.rpm it's a collection of patches with the original tarball
[23:48]
asciilifeform
redhat is more or less the last thing i want to use for anything linux-related.
[23:48]
asciilifeform
it is indelibly stained.
[23:49]
decimation
I get it, but a patch is a patch
[23:49]
asciilifeform
for what do i need these stooges' patches ?
[23:49]
decimation
certainly I'm not saying that they should be taken on redhat's name alone
[23:50]
asciilifeform
what the hell is wrong with naked, classical gcc.
[23:50]
asciilifeform
straight from rms's arse
[23:50]
decimation
well, many of them are probably not useful in the context of buildroot
[23:50]
trinque
lol
[23:50]
decimation
but some of them are probably fixes for obscure bugs that might be useful to know about
[23:50]
asciilifeform
i don't want any redhat patches. if were any good, would have made it back into mainline.
[23:50]
asciilifeform
i do not want them in the zoo, i do not want them with a gnu, i do not want them in a house, i do not want them with a mouse, ... , ...
[23:51]
decimation
i admit that many of them are probably useful bugfixes that are backported
[23:51]
asciilifeform
i do not want them in a lake, i do not want them on the stake, ...
[23:51]
decimation
redhat is used in many places
[23:52]
decimation
perhaps not 'avionics grade', but there is quite a bit of 'fix this shit'
[23:53]
*
asciilifeform has used, did not like.
[23:53]
asciilifeform
because, aside from the authorship,
[23:53]
asciilifeform
it is neither minimal, nor clean, nor self-reconstructing.
[23:53]
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[23:54]
decimation
asciilifeform: well, self-reconstructing is one thing, but certainly the very 'base' install isn't much bigger than a buildroot
[23:55]
junseth
"junseth: I am drawing a parallel between functioning natural ecosystems and functioning markets" I'm not sure what you mean. Can you
[23:55]
junseth
expound.
[23:55]
decimation
I suppose my overall point is that if the build target is 'frozen', someone is gonna have to maintain the infrastructure
[23:58]
decimation
so one can take advantage of that which exists already commercially, or 'do it self'
[23:58]
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