Nostr Web Client

appreciate the effort here.

its would be nice to do a line-by-line refutation since nostr:npub1yxp7j36cfqws7yj0hkfu2mx25308u4zua6ud22zglxp98ayhh96s8c399s went through all the trouble of writing all that down.

and he's not wrong that self-custodial LN solves several of moneros problems.

but the devil in the details....

Bass 5mo ago

I find that Super is very selective in how he goes about his arguments and isn't very helpful in inter btc/xmr dialogs. Great resource for L2 options and technical know how, but borders on intentionally misleading when comparing btc and xmr as if they are functionally equivalent systems. I would push it off as expertise ignorance, but he isn't ignorant or stupid. It's a subtle but pervasive straw manning of the arguments.

Most Lightning privacy is theoretical unless you’re running a full node over Tor with custom peer management and manual channel configs. If you want usable privacy now, Monero is the better option.

Reply to this note

Please Login to reply.

Discussion

Hanshan 5mo ago

yeah that's my basic takeaway as well.

i gave up supposition as to his motives. he seems to genuinely believe its in everyone's best interest for him to misrepresent the risks to encourage LN usage 🤷

but I dont think LN is theoretical. you can spin up nodes and pay for inbound liquidity to receive without kyc. ie, move sats around trustlessly.

but you'd never know if the routing nodes were conspiring against you.

nuance and tradeoffs...

Bass 5mo ago

I say it's theoretical simply because it's dependent on optional setup. Out of box lightning isn't what super is arguing for. I agree that Supers setup is superior. That doesn't mean that everyone else's ln setup inherits his level of privacy by default. The way it's being argued is as though it's simple, feasible, and done by the majority of ln users as though this isn't a systemic issue. You have to be actively controlling and operating at a high level of opsec going into it:

-Use non-custodial wallets

-Open channels non-publicly (ideally via Tor)

-Route over private peers

-Avoid third-party/invoiced-based interactions

-Never publish node info to network directories

Mind you, Nostr bros are on the higher end of tech savvy, and yet this is beyond most of us. Are we to argue that the best option for the world today is to educate them into perfect opsec on LN, or to give them an option they can get default, high level privacy while they learn how to do it perfectly on lightning?