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I don’t see where I made the first assumption given I said people can be faster (better) on their own through their use of reason or through someone like a gym teacher (self help people, teachers of philosophy, non-Christian religious leaders, etc.). Jesus is not a gatekeeper to being good. There are plenty of very good people that have never heard the Gospel.

Regarding your second point, it again seems to be a matter of definition. What is “sin”? Where do you see nature being sinful? If you’re referring to a lion hunting its prey, that’s not a sin. Humans can and do sin because we are rational animals with the able to discern right from wrong (morality). When we act counter to the eternal law, we sin. You and I agree that nature, otherwise known as creation, is good. Very good, in fact. God created all of this out of nothing so that we too can enjoy it and even create alongside Him and be stewards of the world. Many come to God in their jobs/work.

I agree it’s good to question. I encourage you to seek for you will find. The Church does not guarantee salvation. It cannot and will not ever make such a presumption because the Church is not the judge. We don’t know who is or isn’t in Hell aside from Satan. Hell is a choice. People, by their own free will, choose Hell. I believe it was C.S. Lewis that said the gates of Hell are locked from the inside.

It seems the crux of it comes down to Original Sin. I believe in it, you deny it. We live in objective reality, one of us has to be right. I believe humans can act selfishly, be rude, harm others, lie, steal, cheat, deceive, etc. You believe humans don’t do those things as part of their nature. I ask you then, if you look around the world why do humans constantly act against their nature? If a cat has a particular nature, wouldn’t you find it bizarre if it was constantly behaving like a dog or a pig or a beaver and going against its nature?

dvo 1y ago

I think selfishness is inherent in human nature, and in all of nature. I also question if there is anything wrong with that. there is a great symbiosis to it. a more worrisome act to me on a greater scale is the rejection of this. “for the greater good” is a loved phrase by dictators and tyrants for a reason

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Omekau 1y ago

We know acting selfishly is wrong because of its definition as an “excessive” concern with oneself. We see it everywhere in modern society with men abandoning children, women killing infants in their womb, etc. Taking care of oneself within reason is not selfishness. Prioritizing oneself at the expense of others is selfishness and is bad.

Agreed, Church teaching is that good ends do not justify bad means. It is staunchly opposed to utilitarianism, for example. Quoting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1755: “A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together.” 1756: “One may not do evil so that good may result from it”.

Christian teaching opposes tyranny. But it does it not through its own tyranny, instead through love. So much so that God Himself, who could do whatever He wants, chose to die on the cross so that we may learn to suffer for love as much as Him and in the end, come out triumphant.