"Michael Levin and John Vervaeke in Dialogos: Towards an Ontology of Causal Structures"

An argument that ontology is both bottom up and top down, that is that there are mathematical and other constraints on evolution that make reductionism (say of biology to physics) incoherent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1ah94fBtgU

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Also around min 35 they discuss the reality of the Placebo effect!