No, I don’t believe in intrinsic value in the abstract sense—I believe in physics, where energy is the foundational constant that defines the value of everything. Bitcoin’s value isn’t intrinsic because we assign it meaning; it’s intrinsic because its structure is rooted in the thermodynamic reality of energy expenditure. The security, scarcity, and immutability of Bitcoin are direct outcomes of this energy—measurable, universal, and undeniable.
Discussion
It's just the other way around - the more value people give to bitcoin, the more energy they will be willing to investvin it.
Yes and...
You may not assign it a "meaning", you asdign it a "value".
That's fine.
A lot of us do.
Many do NOT.
" Value" is not measurable, it's individual.
Some people value security and scarcity, others do not.
I get your take by measuring security and all in joules - but if anybody "values" security or not is alwayas an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.
A lot of people value security more than freedom for example.
I just want you to rethink your wording - what is value to you may not be valuable at all for others.
"Intrinsic freedom", " inzrinsic security", "intrinsic censorship-resistance" -- that all is true for BTC.
Its value, however, is always an individual choice and NOT intrinsic.
Value (energy) is intrinsic in everything. Even our ideas live solely due to the energy committed by an individual to pass knowledge through time.
Even that water you speak of in the desert. Without energy to bond the hydrogen to the oxygen, you have nothing.
Your subjective value is what you place on top of anything real.
If you to live in a mindset of nothing is valuable, go for it; it’s not rooted in reality. Intrinsic value is the energy required for existence. Subjective value is whatever an individual places above. Either way, both are quantifiable via energy with bitcoin.
Intrinsic value is an undeniable reality rooted in the laws of physics and thermodynamics. At its core, intrinsic value is the energy required for existence—the measurable effort needed to create, sustain, or maintain something in the physical world. Without energy, there is no structure, no function, and ultimately, no existence.
Fiat systems perpetuate the illusion that nothing has intrinsic value. By detaching money from any energy or physical anchor, fiat promotes a mindset where value is arbitrary and purely subjective. This illusion allows infinite creation of currency without corresponding work or energy expenditure, undermining the very concept of value and encouraging systems built on manipulation and illusion. Fiat teaches people to ignore the reality of intrinsic value because it benefits from detachment from physical constraints.
Subjective value, on the other hand, is what individuals or societies place on top of intrinsic value based on context, needs, or preferences. For example, Bitcoin’s intrinsic value lies in the energy required to mine, secure, and maintain its network. Subjectively, people assign value to Bitcoin based on how much they appreciate its security, scarcity, and utility. While subjective value is personal and variable, it cannot exist without an underlying framework of intrinsic value.
Bitcoin bridges this gap. By tying subjective valuations to an immutable, energy-backed system, it reconnects humanity with the reality of intrinsic value. It forces us to reckon with the energy that underpins existence, ensuring that subjective valuations are grounded in something real. Without this alignment, value remains as arbitrary as fiat—detached from reality and unsustainable in the long run. Bitcoin reminds us that both intrinsic and subjective value are quantifiable, but only when rooted in energy and the laws of physics.
Fiat has rotted your mind brother. Satan would want you to believe nothing is real and everything is subjective because it detaches you from truth, order, and accountability. It creates chaos, allowing manipulation and control to thrive. Fiat systems love to deny intrinsic value and promote illusions.
I get the point, but thats not value, thats work/energy.
1 joule is just 1 joule on paper and in maths.
A joule has ZERO value.
"Oh a stone dropped from some height, that equals the value of x joule". Yes, on paper.
The tower of babel required some joules to build. Was that really a "value"?
Consciousness, thus the ability to value anything, is fundamentally tied to energy. Every thought, perception, and decision made by a conscious being requires energy to power the neural processes in the brain. Without energy, there is no biological or informational substrate to support the existence of consciousness.
Intrinsic value, rooted in energy, provides the foundation for consciousness to even recognize and assess the world. If there were no intrinsic value—no energy required for existence—there would be nothing to perceive, interact with, or evaluate. The act of valuing something requires a baseline reality, one grounded in the energy and effort needed to create and sustain it. Consciousness cannot assign subjective value to something unless there is first a universal, energy-based framework that makes existence possible. Without intrinsic value, subjective valuation would have no anchor and no meaning.
Or like:
Someone carves a little figure out of wood and he needs a ton of workhours and energy.
Now someone skilled does the same figure in a fraktion of time.
According to you, the first figurine should be more valuable because the (identic) second one took way less energy and time.