You've rationalized away offering your daughters to be gang raped by the villagers, all because your entire moral reasoning is backstopped by the semantic stop sign "because god"
I actually kept digging for a reason things might be good or bad.
How did you possibly come to the conclusion I am the one who has weak moral reasoning?
Gotcha, my mistake. You mentioned Lot’s daughters, I was addressing one of those horrible scenarios where you can see how the city affected their reasoning. Those two girls raping their father came later. Earlier in the story, Lot offering them to be raped was not justified at all. It was wrong and terrible, and violates God’s law regarding how to treat your family. We know that by what the rest of the Bible says. He was a good man trying to live well in a bad place, and made a gross error under stress. Absolutely wrong. But that account paints him warts and all. Not rationalizing his actions, it was stupid and foolish to live there. And To marry your daughters into that culture. Abraham offered his wife to pharaoh, that was wrong. David killed his general to sleep with his wife. Wrong. These were good men but also sinners, warped, and in need of mercy and internal change just like us. We can see their repentance and admission of wrong, but only Christ is good. The way the NT paints it, 2 Pet 2:7 Lot was righteous and distressed by their lawless deeds in Sodom, but he was also responsible for what happened to his family. He is accountable and should have left sooner.
And I think I have repeatedly identified that you have a strong moral code. You hate hypocrisy, want truth, and protect and provide for your family. All very good. But that’s just me saying it’s good or just you saying it’s good, a group of people can come along and just say it’s bad. It’s logically subjective…that’s the black hole.
This is the point of my entire train of thought. You don't know where that path leads, but that doesn't mean you can assume it isn't a path or that it goes nowhere.
Here is the core of this entire trap they've set. As long as you believe that giving up your god leads straight to no reasoning basis for any moral code it is terrifying. You can't leave, what if you go become a pedophile or murderer or whatever type of "sinner" scares you most.
Really reflect and ask yourself how a Christian afraid of hell compares to an atheist who does the right thing simply because it is right with no existential threat? If you awoke tomorrow 100% convinced there was no god, other than not attending church what changes? I have raped and murdered everyone that I want to, have you?
I'm not trying to convince you there is no god. I'm just placing a path for intellectual retreat. I doubt you've ever had a safe place to consider the question without feeling fear. I have been an atheist 20 years now and I am not 20. I know all to well what traps have been set to keep you from even asking the question honestly. I remember how long and terrifying that journey out was.
I would have to say, yes, like you I have raped and murdered everyone I want to. At least today.
Although not a true text book atheist, I do think I was definitely in the camp of defining my own morality before I was confronted with something far greater. There was absolutely no basis for what I thought was right, just myself, and logically, that makes society itself untenable.
I appreciate the thought experiment, however. The motivation for doing what is right, avoiding what is wrong is important. But if I come to a different conclusion on what is right, could you tell me why your way is actually right?
Hey nostr:npub1qyxlpj2gl6dt2nfvkl4yyrl6pr2hjkycrdh2dr5r42n7ktwn7pdqrdmu7u I have appreciated your thoughts. Thanks for being a good sparring partner. I’m gonna close out this thread, but you can have the last word. Truly, thanks for exchange.
I'll use my final word to say you were extremely civil, patient, and kind compared to my average experience having that conversation with a religious person.
