Replying to Avatar The Epic

True, absolutely true... Amen to that! People ought to not look the other way and we ought to have the power to say no. This also could be a problem of which comes first, the government doing this to people or just people doing this to people.

Which is certainly an entirely related discussion on the fundamental reality of humanity, good, evil, order, and chaos. Don't get me wrong, the US government is certainly evil. It has way too much power and control. Not to mention the kinds of things it uses to attain this power and control. Poor money, poor dietary advice, poor... Well, lots of things but I'm not broadened enough to tell you anything else! 😂

But I was just thinking about this other thought. Let's say we have a large mass of land like the US, we're truly free, and we don't have a federal government or perhaps any government. What's to stop some other people somewhere else with a government from trying to impose their government on that large area via violence and threat?

Maybe you'd have to have people organize together to either mitigate the threat, prevent the war, or contest such threat in warfare and combat. At that point you might want some money, other people, and some applicable resources in general. It starts to look like a government in some regard. Perhaps it's not strictly a government. At the very least, you might need an organization or at least something resembling an organization. Perhaps what's needed is the separation of military and state or perhaps the re-conceptualization of the government as military or something kind of like that. Though there might be dragons in the re-conceptualization department of things... 😬

In fairness, let's suppose something a little different. Let's say this outside power attempts to use war to enslave a large population and enforce government but they can't. Maybe it's because it's hard to enslave a large mass of land with a large population of free people who are scattered throughout the land. Especially if we're going to assume most of those people have common sense, are quite intelligent, and have persisted for generations with tried and true traditions. There is also the idea of guerrilla warfare... So perhaps you don't necessarily need that organization.

“What's to stop some other people somewhere else with a government from trying to impose their government on that large area via violence and threat?”

If that were to happen, we’d be in a similar situation to what we are in today. It’s just that, for some reason, people think it’s okay to be ruled by a local government because you have the illusion of choice. That is essentially what Britain did to the colonialists. But then they fought for independence and then turned around and started to govern each other 😂

One difference is that the farther away that government is, the more difficult it is to enforce those laws. So maybe being ruled by a foreign government would be better.

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Good point. So really it's an inevitability that people want governments even if governments aren't exactly a good idea. I don't know if there's ever going to be a point in human history where we learn from this mistake. I think it's just a fundamental human need or desire to have some order. Too much order and it's evil. Too much freedom and you have no direction. So really, isn't it inevitable that we have a government? And if so, what ought it do for people? Because if that's not defined and enforced, then it'll strictly do things to people. It's probably a good idea for the government to be as big or small as absolutely necessary and only do things for people that only a government could do. Which might be a military. Might be something else.

No such thing as too much freedom.

The problem with defining and enforcing what a government should do is that it never lasts forever. Even if you can get everyone to agree, which you can’t, the laws and rules will eventually be violated and changed. The constitution tried to define what the government can and can’t do but governments always overstep.

Pretty based take ngl. Well the problem with believing the axiom that there can never be too much freedom is that it invites too much chaos. So much that there's no direction. Unless we define freedom as the perfect harmony between order and chaos, the freedom with direction. Which then scratch the comment about order and chaos.

But it all still begs the question of whether people will really learn. Yes time and new people change what is and isn't established. Government will always overstep. If it weren't for the problem of violence, threat of harm, war, and foreign governments, then we wouldn't feel the need for government.

Honestly if everyone was raised to learn how to fight physically and verbally, everyone owned weapons, knew how to use them, and everyone understood the responsibility, respect, and caution required when using such weapons, then we might not need to outsource fighting to a big centralized federal government military. Perhaps it's just we've regressed to such a point where such traditions aren't as common and we've gotten to the point where we want to abstract away the fighting to someone else in fear. 🧠