What's your interpretation?
Discussion
This is going to be difficult... And if you find something you disagree with, please be civil. Maybe I can calibrate this so it doesn't trigger stuff...
The name "Revelations" is the first hint. Its a revealing. You reveal things that are hidden. And "Apocalypse" is just Greek for "revelation/unveiling." So a truth is coming forth. What did Jesus say about truth specifically? He's the truth, but that's basically allegory, since its unexplained. The truth will set you free. That's actually just always true, though. If you live in illusion of any sort, you're enslaved to the falsehood, even if you're unaware of it. The whole purpose of Jesus' ministry is to bring out the truth in people. Sure, if you believe in Jesus, you're saved - again, though, its unexplained. What are the mechanics? Why? Rhetorical questions - the answer is, you're liberated from illusion, which had caused you to miss the mark, so you stop sinning. This is probably not a zenlike moment of satori - you awaken a little bit at a time, depending on the grace you're given and your studies and whether you have good examples around you. We're human. There's a process. You become less sinful as you mature, basically. Hopefully.
The purpose of the whole New Testament is just this - learn to stop sinning, build the temple/church within your heart, let God dwell in yourself. Sure there's history, but history isn't the point of it. The point is the transformation taking place as you realign your values. The reason I'm bringing all this non-revelations stuff into it is, it would be a very strange break from the rest of the NT if the last book was prophesy and not psychology. And speaking of prophesy, Jesus said they were all fulfilled. So, for all these reasons, I think Revelations is about psychology, rather than a prediction of events happening in the world, which by that point in the bible, you shouldn't be placing any value on (the physical world).
Okay. Now... Before I get to the mark, I want yo talk about... Economics. Lol. The word "economics" comes from Greek - "economia" - and it didn't have anything to do with money. Economia is the movement of the Spirit, either yours or the big one. Its value transmission. You can see it : if you say something nice to someone, that might brighten their day and then they'll say nice things, and you get a ripple effect and the "good" in the world increases because of your initial choice. This touches on Aristotelian thinking - the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. And it goes the other way too, spreading hate. This is the movement of spirit. Maybe not the Holy Spirit, but it gets a response there, too. If saying something nice can manifest Paradise, essentially, how much more so can forgiveness? Or giving? Or just having a conversation in a loving manner? The is the transmission of value. Economics in the money sense is actually about this too, but it's more like a numerical estimation of psychology. The magnitude and frequency of the numbers moving tell us about how much things are valued, but those numbers aren't the value - the value is the value, and the numbers only symbolize that. So, while you see physical things moving, the true movement is the value. You could say that physical movement is a reaction to nonphysical movement, and that the realm of value, which is to say, Spirit, is the real world. That is not to say that the material world doesn't exist. Its just that we don't experience the complete world if we think that this materiality is all there is.
Esoterically, the division between the material world of sense and assumption is separated from the real world of spirit by a veil, which was originally symbolized by the veil that hung in the temple of Jerusalem, which was ripped in two at the moment when Jesus breathed his last breath. That's in John, iirc, though I don't want to risk losing the note by looking it up (amethyst doesn't save drafts while typing them). The whole scene is symbolic (real things can be symbolic) of your path through this adventure of life back to God, where you're in union with God and complete and in the complete reality, no longer separated from Truth in any way.
**_Now_** I can get to Revelations. The truth is revealed. The earthquakes are the shaking of your understanding. Your world changes from materiality to spirituality, and though its still the world, it's different. You were blind before and now you see. Remember what I said about numbers being symbolic? 666 is Hebrew symbolism for rationality, incompleteness, and humans. In other words, ego. Ego is the part of your psyche (psyche is Greek for "soul," BTW) that tells stories. It recognizes patterns, remembers things, generates stories, and is very helpful in being a human. Indispensable... And its a complete liar. The stories are all lies. Useful lies, but still wrong. It deceives you, justifies itself, counts things and makes you envious and ambitious, inserts "should" into things, and that word does far more harm than good. The ego is of this material world, and it gate keeps value. Value is a matter of spirit. So, the mark of the beast, which no one can buy or sell without, separates you from God.
Alright, that's the best I can do without turning it into a book. I'll also say that I don't know what the crowns of the various rulers mean in Revelations. I've heard nice interpretations, but nothing that convinced me.
Uhh. Sorry for the long read...
Didn't understand half of what you say, but I tried. What caught my attention is your talk about the ego. I wonder whether the modern (read: secular) psychological concept of ego is a derivative of what is said in Revelations. Hmmmm? 🤔
Very possible, but idk. It was probably either Freud or Jung who invented the term (worth looking up in a sec) and if it was Jung, then almost definitely.
K, looked it up - it was Freud. So probably not. Bummer...
Would've been an interesting rabbit hole to drop into.. Oh well.. Next interesting idea please.. 😁
The speed of light proves we're in a simulation.
Wait wait wait, I'm not ready to expand on that 😂
Erh....... What's the argument here?
Put in mind my BSc was in physics.
Uh oh, I'm too scared now...
There's two ways to get to it. One is probabilistic and I got it from thinking about probabilities in bitcoin hashing, and that's by far the more interesting way to get there, but also I haven't thought about it in a long time, so I don't think can do it justice now.
The other is just an analogy with data compression in computers, and how in a game you impose limits on things like speed and view distance so your graphics card doesn't freeze up or melt. If you start with the position that there's a finite amount if data in a given space, then you get all sorts of cool ideas, like an equivalence between data density per volume and matter density, as in the closeness of atoms to each other. I feel like that's a reasonable equivalency, but I wouldn't want to posit exactly how much information is possible per volume, since it could be the case that a thing like an atom or a wave is only a compression of data, and only meaningful to our consciousness, and may look entirely different when "unzipped." But the very simplest way to say it is, speed of one thing relative to another is information, and if there's a limit on that relative speed, which cannot be broken (but interestingly can be massaged), then the limit may actually constitute a file size limit for whatever contains this entire frame.
And if that made no sense, I don't blame you!
Hmmmm.. I read it a couple of times to wrap my head around what you're saying. So, what you're saying is that since there is a limit on the speed of the transfer of information, then that's the ultimate limit for any file transfer. Correct?
Well, if that's the case, then you're not too far from physics says. So, for example, if, for whatever reason, the sun just vanishes into nothingness, the we'll keep seeing it for 8.5 minutes and we won't know about it at all. 8.5 minutes later *poof* the world goes dark and we're flung onto a tangent to the orbit on a straight line until some other big celestial body affects us. So, if you're looking from a birdseye view from way above, you'll see the sun vanish, then all the planet sequentially leave their orbits, not all at the same time. That's the speed of information right there.
So yes, the file transfer that contains the fact that the sun with all its mass had vanished runs at the speed of light. But that's an unrealistic scenario. So, maybe because the real information transfer that ensues because the sun suddenly vanished can't be transferred at the speed of light for the world to be affected. The information there is bigger than a file transfer at the speed of light. Maybe that's why it never happens. 🤔
Approaching religious texts through a gnostic/apophadic lens has really resonated the most with me.
Me too, both
Amazing note, Comte.
Thanks. I think people might feel let down if they agree with it, though. People really want biblical things to be grandiose, but I think this interpretation makes it relatively mundane.
So the mark of the beast IS the ego? This is fascinating. Thank you for taking the time to write all of this. I'll have to contemplate it. I wish I could zap you but I can't figure out my wallet. All the sats are stuck in alby
Don't worry about the zaps - we've both exchanged real value, so the numerical representation is superfluous.
I wouldn't say exactly that the mark *is* the ego - only that each term refers to the same thing. They didn't have a word for ego thousands of years ago. And ego, as currently used, is usually an oversimplification, usually conflated with self importance, which certainly comes from ego, but isn't the whole ego. Ego is self identification, which makes it error, but the purpose of ego is actually to reduce error and be an interface (like the controls in helicopter cockpit) between our real selves and the material world. In Jungian psychology, ego is differentiated from Shadow because if you're identifying with anything as yourself (I am nice, I am patient, I am studious, etc) then you're excluding those opposites and you get a huge category of 'other' which gets assigned an emotional response - but I think that's all still part of ego. In the Bible, the "deceiver" is Satan, and if you look at Satan's conversation with Jesus, where Satan says he'll give Jesus the world, you can very easily substitute Satan with ego and it still works. I'm not saying Satan is the ego, though - which side is real? Which flows from which? Identification with substantive "is" and "aren't" is the error - on this side of the veil, you can't know and language can never encapsulate the true is's and am's.
Remember when Jesus was confronted by the Pharisees and he said their father is the deceiver and he was a liar and murderer from the beginning? And Jesus' father is God, or the most high - I kinda forgot how it goes. The Pharisees were very concerned with the "right" way of doing things. A concern like that comes from ego, which is the story teller and deceiver. The ego is a murderer from the beginning because it kills truth - it also kills virtue, by way of inserting "should" into things, and virtues flow from God and are intrinsic to human nature. When Jesus said that you can't serve two masters, because you will love one and hate the other - that second part clarifies who the masters are. Love and hate come from identification, and in Jungian terms, love is from ego and hate from shadow - which is really all just ego. Ego is from the body, so its the lower master ; God is eternal and creative, so God is the higher master, which I k kW is obvious.
It takes a lot of words to nail down precision. Sorry about that....
That’s odd. I was thinking the other day that the mark of the beast could be the “branding” of the ego. People have made their egos into products. 😳 It’s ultimate materialism.
Oh interesting. Examples? 😁
I think I get it, but I should ask first
I keep hearing that you need to brand yourself to be relevant in the coming new world. I think it means to have an online presence? It’s like the ego has made itself into a product to sell. I don’t know if that makes sense. I struggle with putting my thoughts into sentences. 😂 It’s just one of my many theories.
Makes sense. I don't like it - my brand isn't for sale, and it feels like the world isn't only requiring a personal brand, but a brand that's a sellout. Also it might be insufficient anyways. What we need is community and localism.
Still trying to wrap my mind around this. So in a sentence or two, what would you say the mark of the beast is?
One word will do it : Pride.
But more words more fun, so...
Pride, which is to say, a lack of faith. Pride is the opposite of humility. Humility is knowing you don't know. Living a life of humility in action is brotherly love. Brotherly love, combined with knowledge, is faith. Faith is not belief, and the word is being misused that way. Belief without faith is wrong ; faith without belief is nonsensical ; but the two are entirely different things. Faith is love and knowledge put together. In action, its forgiveness and charity - because knowledge is knowing that you know nothing, and if you know nothing, then the only valuable thing you can ever do is serve. But... I'm not making any assertions about what service looks like, nor even that you could choose not to serve, since I take it as an article of faith that all things serve the greater good. So I mean... Its all just how you choose to be.