Did you read mine? I never said that i can make anyone do anything. But people claim knots is censorship all the time which is obviously not true.
No one has made a single good case supporting that claim, including you.
Discussion
You're setting up a straw man, do you realize?
There's no such thing as censorship within a decentralized network. Every node does what it wants to do and doesn't by itself have power.
The RESULT is very similar, if there are defaults set up in a reference implementation or if enough nodes do this. So the people who maintain that reference implementation have to think about the result of their filters in aggregate. Not simply on that one node that's running the software. You are just running a node, but they have to consider the aggregate.
Because it results in censoring these transactions when enough nodes don't propagate them. Back channels are required to get around that emergent censorship of these valid transactions.
If the RESULT of these filters, given enough nodes implementing them, is a censoring of them from the mem-pool, other than using a black-market for transactions, then where would we say this censoring is coming from?
It's obviously right that it's not censorship for you to do this in your node configuration, but it also is very similar in result to censorship in the end. If the major implementation of our nodes is maintaining a feature that results in censorship, that is similar enough to a government managing policies about what we can do on Bitcoin, for me. I don't like it.
If the result wasn't censorship of these transactions, then you wouldn't want to do it.
I don’t care what happens to your filthy transactions. If your transactions have a problem being censored than make better transactions. I will never have this problem because I am not imposing a bunch of garbage on my peers. I respect their private property and will use as little of their resources as humanly possible. If you don’t also do that it’s your problem, not mine.
Ok, there ya go.
We've arrived together at the Truth. It is censorship, and that's the point of it. Thank you.
I don't disagree that we need to adjust things. A discount for witness data doesn't seem appropriate anymore. However, you do want the censorship, you don't just want to keep the transaction propagation costs away from your personal node. You want the dominant implementation to be on your filtering configuration to effectuate censorship.
You want to effectuate censorship of some 'bad' transactions. That's a bit awkward for anarchists to swallow, to say the least. It's not inaccurate to say this, as established.
There's no threat to Bitcoin from these transactions. It's about costs and paying them for things you don't approve of. You don't want the network to pay, for your node to cost more for things that you don't approve of.
Bitcoin isn't what you approve of it being. It is what it is. It is what we make it. It isn't only what it was intended to be. It isn't a Constitution. It's alive. It becomes what we make it. I look forward to a world where it eats everything. Every title, every payment, every major legal document or contract.
Why not? Technically, not morally. Why, technically, could we not? Are we not preparing for millions of tx per sec on lightning? Oh are we afraid of the little government man who wants to hassle us for some garbage data on our nodes?
Defend yourself. Bitcoin shouldn't have to shapeshift to protect you.
You are right about one thing. Bitcoin is what we make it.
What you are missing is that this is not only a technical discussion. Filling up nodes with garbage creates a disincentive to run a node.
What incentive do I have to relay and mine transactions full of garbage.
We signed up for money not jpegs. And defending my private property is not censorship, deal with it.
I appreciate your position and the respectful discussion. The main thing I am critical of is the idea that you think you can stop the jepgs or 'non monetary data' on Bitcoin. Even the softfork plan would not accomplish much.
Harm minimization is an overall good, here. The miners are mining them. Your node is getting filled up more with the filters, long term, as the transactions are confirmed and the dApps use alternatives that cause UTXO set bloat.