Nostr Web Client

If Alby didn't change its business model we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Everyone switch to Alby years ago and now you have to pay so PC 2.0 took it out back and killed.

This has been Fountain and Alby this whole time and I love them both and I use AlbyHub daily to support podcasters and musicians because it's always worked but I had to build a node while I away put off because I couldn't send from it with 2.0 apps until AlbyHub and I've never been happier.

I even have nostr:npub17w7592g67helr3qv53ddyf55vj4hnxttxtd8368d92u3zyds3ejs0x40jx that post said Boostagrams to Nostr so we're playing with stuff but it's the same stuff that's worked for almost 5 years.

That said podcasting 2.0 is an open spec .

PodcastindexOrg.org has all the data and you can access it with an API key.

That's how I built itdv.podtards.com

You can just build stuff...

ps I'm just jaded but willing to help ;) talked with Oscar last night about this stuff.

Chris Fisher 3mo ago 💬 1

Even if Alby had kept easy hosted wallets around, no major lightning wallet supports keysend.

And when you consider what’s easiest for podcasts to give out on air Lnadress offers a familiar email address format.

To be clear, I think it’s a real shame Keysend has not seen more love.

and… it’s a shame lnadress is not Bolt12 ready which also solves some of this.

But there is a hard reality we are up against. We are down to just Fountain and Alby compatible apps that can boost.

Ironically fountain could just sit back and do nothing and they pretty much consolidate and lock up the entire boost market because they probably already have about 80% of it. They’re pretty much the last easy lightning wallet for boosting in town.

And for the listener, it’s a lot less of an ask if they can use any lightning app that supports LNaddress to support the show. They could use strike or other apps directly even.

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Discussion

ChadF and 33 others 3mo ago 💬 2

The value tag supports lnaddress so anyone can use that in their feed.

You can even add something to your funding tag like nostr:npub1jcympy69pht7ptan39se4nd09e4q66qhey649uu3rczm2zh88c7s0n2890 does.

They have a Monero link there that I use all the time.

https://xmrchat.com/ugmf

We need more options which is my whole point.

Chris Fisher 3mo ago 💬 1

Actually, this is the problem.

You can do it, but there’s several huge disadvantages right now and I don’t think most people realize it.

Important Metadata podcasters need to credit supports is missing, just not even captured. And importantly to me if you’re self hosting a node, it gets even worse and anyone in the split doesn’t get any metadata.

When you receive the boost, you have no idea the total amount, and the most situations you won’t even know who sent it. It depends on all of the systems between.

It currently only works in very limited situations.

I’ve been testing this the hard way with some of my shows, and it was a mini disaster. Even though I’m a big proponent of using lnadress I had to roll back to using my node address/keysend for now because of all of the shortcomings with the current implementation.

Being able to properly credit people who support the show is a vital and important part of the value for value cycle - that is fundamentally broken right now with the current lnadress implementation.

If the current implementation sees wider adoption, it will destroy boost for podcast. I don’t say that lightly, you probably know how critical this is for my shows.

I think some key insights that I have here that maybe others are missing is that I run multiple shows at scale that are funded by boost. Multiple episodes of my shows are often in the fountain top charts each week. I’m not bragging. I’m just pointing out, it’s significant us.

We self-host our entire infrastructure.

And we build tooling around boost, so that way we can properly credit those who supports us.

And I’m a big supporter of other v4v podcast and as a listener, I boost a lot .

So I really been looking at this for all angles since about December.

If I could go on the podcasting 2.0 show every week and yell that we have a problem here I would! I think a lot of people are missing this because they’re not quite as deep into the technicals .

Technically lnadress is supported. But it’s a disaster in its current implementation and limitations.

It also reinforces centralization because just look at the practical implementation so far. Fountain is the easiest and most complete implementation. Even using Alby Hub the experience is sub-par. You will get the stats. And your SOL if you just want to run your own node and lnadress.

BITwise 🐳 >>= RIGHTish 3mo ago 💬 3

Ok so just taking a snippet of what you're addressing here. Let's assume lnaddress is widely adopted across the ecosystem, that still leaves us with the Metadata issue. Is that accurate?

Just brainstorming but seems like from there the solution has to be client side... lnaddress payments do allow for a text field. The client could potentially autofill this with the essential Metadata such as sender, client, show, and track/timestamp when generating the invoice. It would take a meeting of the minds from major clients to implement but could be done i think?

BITwise 🐳 >>= RIGHTish 3mo ago

Feel free to tell me to stfu if I don't know what im talking abt (cause I prob dont) but if its too much data... is it possible to create a service that hashes the essential Metadata so its small enough to embed into the lnaddress memo field? It'd be a workaround but the node operator could somehow export their receipts and the service can translate?

ChadF and 33 others 3mo ago

Correct. Currently the metadata is in the keysend payment. Switch to lnaddress and the metadata field is there but much smaller. Oscars idea is to use Nostr to transmit the metadata basically separating the message from the payment.

The apps need to implement this and the podcaster/musician needs something to receive it which was Chris's issue when he switched.

This is why we've been talking about this issue for 3 years but the AlbyHub change really broke the system since that was what non Fountain apps used so to use those now you need AlbuHub.

Oddly enough Franco from Castamatic was on the PC 2.0 show and said the AlbyHub change didn't really impact the amount of people using his app to Boost shows. I don't know how many people do that in his app but that's an important data point.

We also had Boost before we had Boostagrams. Lightning payments were sent way before they had a message attached so if we lose them for a few months so be it.

The message is a key part of V4V but if you not getting a lightning payment then your not getting a message in my book.

Nostr also isn't the only proposed solution to this.

Sam Sethi at Truefans.fm is using ActivityPub to try and solve this.

Alecks Gates proposed something called metaboost that you add a url to your RSS feed and the metadata is sent there for you to do with what you will. (This is just a proposal)

BITwise 🐳 >>= RIGHTish 3mo ago 💬 2

While there may be other implementations, some of which may even be more efficient, I'd explore Oscar's solution as utilizing nostr also activates a significant potential fan base and that's not to be an overlooked advantage.

Also, in open protocols, optionality, to a degree, is important. Would implementing lnaddress mean deprecating keysend? Why not both?

ChadF and 33 others 3mo ago

I think it does but I don't see people giving it up. It's your RSS Feed after all.

I want both and that would solve things but apps need a way to support that also.

I want to say "hey I prefer keysend but here's my lnaddress as well"

Sir Libre 2w ago 💬 1

So I haven't read all of this hell thread so bare with me. (I will read it all eventually)

Next week's episode of the v4vmusic podcast will be entitled "The Case For Keysend" where I will address much of what is being discussed here.

Albeit with my own bias, of course. 🙂

I am not a nostr hater nor am I an lnAddress hater, but I do believe we should be using the right tools for the right jobs.

https://v4vmusic.com/?album=cmixpr0vk00f0od0igxv4g9q2

ChadF and 33 others 2w ago

That one is 3 months old btw. It’s just Oscar’s proposal for the Nostr-metadata solution that I added some commentary to that I like to repost every now and then.

StableKraft.app supports that proposal btw minus some of the zap receipt stuff but all Boosts in SK that post to nost have the PC 2.0 GUIDs in them and even show up in Fountain.

I realize I’m adding to the hellthread even more here but the root post for this is Oscar’s proposal so it’s a nice time capsule.

BITwise 🐳 >>= RIGHTish 3mo ago 💬 1

Metaboost sounds like it would work well with nostr. Assign an npub pointed to a specific relay and Metadata simply posted as notes. Metaboost simply acts as bridge or client for users to pull the nostr data. View as native client or bridge to node.

ChadF and 33 others 3mo ago

Oscar's proposal lets apps post the metadata to relays to then be pulled down.

I'm working on zaps.podtards.com that post to nostr:npub1k34lqqeqa90e269gtw4r5z3h0hgejj9hnf8lpkmc2jzq5tl2ru8qqkwhjf.

Works with Alby since the addresses in the feeds are keysend but I'm working on adding other stuff to help the 2.0 devs see this in action.